Rx question Sativa Green Dragon

The blend can be relevant with your high but the difference between an edibles high and a regular smoking high is that you may not feel the smoking high as well at first. Though with an edible high in this case a green dragon recipe you will know distinctively when you get high, and personally it matters on the side affects of the bus used, but for the most part as long as its not low grade shit you will end up a little drunk and a shit ton high.

 

For me, a green dragon made with a sativa strain is way more of a head high than a body stone. I usually feel both body stone and head high when consuming green dragon, but thats because i use a mix of indica and sativa strains to make it.

Decarb your bud before you make the green dragon, but don't decarb it for too long. If you do this, even with a sativa strain, the effects will be more of a body stone

 

If you can't always pick your strains (and even strain, aside) you can control the outcome and effects provided by your edible/drinkable, by experimenting with different levels of 'activation'. A good uplifting sativa would be ideal, but sometimes patients do not have the strains they need, immediately available. With a little experimenting, you can easily find the right level of processing that is most beneficial for an individual patient.


The below should help explain how, with the right amount of 'activation', you can take advantage of the herb you have available, to achieve a particular desired effect, whether it's sativa or indica (the unique traits of the particular strain will still be present, or dominant, but at least you have options!).



-------------------------------------------



Excerpt taken from this tutorial:

-Medical Grade Cannabis Concentrate- (Edible & Smokable recipes included)


-----------


A single strain, is not limited to providing only a 'single type' of experience when it is eaten, like it generally provides when it

is smoked.



Edible cannabis can be more like vaporization, it can provide a range of experiences depending how you treat it, and the

possibilities can be much greater than smoking, or even vaping!



-----------



The below describes the 'range' of effects provided by different levels of activation, their benefits, and the desired outcome for the

patients who choose them.


Starting with:


The least activation, producing a bioavailable solution of mostly carboxyl-intact acid components; Continuing right through to

decarboxylation, and active cannabinoids and chemicals, free of their carboxyl groups; And finally finishing with

degradation and the byproducts of degraded THC.







1.) - Some patients require 'inactive' but bioavailable THCA, CBNA, CBDA and the other (to us) 'inactive acids', and in

flowers those doses can range from .05g to as high as 4.5g, without 'doping up' or intoxicating a patient much, if at all even

at the highest doses. These are cold tinctures, processed with material that is as fresh as possible, without decarbing.

Cold, but most importantly bioavailable extractions (more than just 'juicing' plant matter is required!), provide powerful

anti-cancer/mutagenic, anti-seizure/spasmodic benefits and they provide wonderful pain relief without reducing sensation

of touch, they reduce swelling and inflammation even in lower doses, and especially at higher doses, and they provide especially

wonderful relief for specifically for MS, Parkinson's, as well as for generally frail patients, and also for those suffering

from seizures.

Where it takes literally only a day or two to build up a tolerance to the highest of doses, and these oils and tinctures do

not make a person feel overwhelmed, they are wonderful for treating patients who suffer from very powerful seizures,

and similar attacks. Cannabis is incredibly non-toxic, an incredibly larger dose may be given to both provide relief, and

to control the symptoms of more intense attacks, preventing further injury.

These oils and tinctures are also somewhat mood elevating, but still, for the most part it's without that medicated feeling.

You will have very good pain relief, without losing your sensation of touch.





2.) - The first sensations (following a cold tincture that has had no activation) of an oil or tincture with only limited or partial activation

and decent bioavailability, are primarily cerebral.

In higher doses, these under-processed edibles can cause some mild anxiety and even paranoia in some patients; hyperventilating,

'room-spins', racing-mind/thoughts, even vomiting, these are not uncommon side-effects of over-consumption of THC

and trace amounts of THCA, when they are consumed in quantity, minus some of the important experience-regulating byproducts,

of degradation.




3.) - Then, some patients want to feel relaxed, nicely buzzed but still functional, and they need something that elevates their

mood without gluing them to the couch . In which case edibles decarbed and processed in oil, as described in most of

the tutorials here, are a great place to start.



For those first starting out with edibles, I make sure their first few doses are about half of what they'd normally smoke in

a single session, or in a single day if they are heavy smokers. Once they know what to expect, the average dose most

people are satisfied with (but at the sane time they are not too overwhelmed by), is right around the same amount used in a

24 hour period. It's strong enough to either keep them from smoking quite as much in a day, or it actually out-right replaces

their smoking for the day.



So if you smoke a gram a day, you'll want to eat between a half gram, to a gram in a well-processed edible. I like to split

my daily dose into two to three smaller doses. Sometimes I take them in quick succession, sometimes I spread them

out, and finish with a 'sleeper'... Deciding what level of processing you need, can be the tricky part.






4.) - The longer you heat in oil (to a certain extent, up to four or five hours), the more 'body intensive' the sensations

will become, without a noticeable diminish in potency.

At these levels of activation you have highly effective pain relief, that can sometimes be powerful enough to effect

sensitivity to touch.... for instance if you have a low tolerance, you may notice that you become clumsy, or 'loose and wobbly'

on well-activated oil, you may lose some sensation of touch.

Four to six hours in oil at 220 f, or longer,

and I'm either stuck to the couch, or falling fast asleep!




5.) Any longer than a few hours at such temperatures will reduce THC content. But while 'perceived potency' diminishes, and

the ratio of THC begins to fall, the material becomes overloaded with byproducts of degraded THC, primarily in the form of

delta-8-THC and CBN, and when combined they are powerfully sedative.

While their effects may seem weak during the time you can keep your eyes open, these oils and tinctures usually knock a patient

out cold within 45 - 60 minutes, leaving them well rested upon waking the following morning (or afternoon)!



--------------------



Hope this helps.

 

If anything do you mind me asking which you grow? I've been looking for some kind of lowryder seeds for cheap?

 

I've never seen any evidence that carboxyl cannabinoids are useful in treating mania or manic depressives. In fact it's well known that the carboxyl cannabinoids that BKS mentioned are in fact inactive and have nothing to do with the cerebral effects of the cannabis, they don't even effect the cannabinoid system. None of the carboxyl cannabinoids are desirable for people with psychological difficulty, it would be bolognia to say otherwise. The carboxyl cannabinoids are NSAIDs of the Cox-2 variety, so this isn't useful information for someone who needs medication for manic depressive symptoms. Not informing them of the conversion process required to increase the strength of the medication for such cases is also not cool. I know you believe in the decarboxylation technology, why don't you talk about it in full?

At the threadstarter, edibles, since they have to be processed and made and measured, will never be the same every dose or every batch. Decarboxylating your cannabis is more important than the starting material you are starting with and it's also more important than the so called "indica or sativa" of the plant. Tip: Lower decarboxylation temps leave more CBDa undecarboxylated, changing the THC:CBD ratio of your final edible dose and in effect changing the actual medicinal properties too. Too much THC and not enough CBD can be a bad experience, and high doses of THC-missing edibles (like bud that was hardcore vaped) is not the ideal experience either.

hope this helps.

 

You really need to learn to read better before you criticize. I never said that 'inactive' cannabinoids are psychoactive, I did however say that partially activated cannabis (which contains a blend of active, and inactive chemicals, and fewer sensation-regulating byproducts of degradation) will cause a more cerebral effect, which is 100% true.
The longer your process after initial activation, the more sedative-narcotic the experience comes, the less you process after initial activation the more cerebral the experience and the more functional you remain.

That's just how it works, hundreds of clinics and edible suppliers around the country process their edibles based on those principals.



All the above that I mentioned is WELL known in the medical community... try google and educate yourself, I think you'll find that it helps to know what you're talking about, when you start dismissing widely known information.

 

Maybe you should learn what you're writing before you write it. Partially active cannabis = cannabis with inactive, carboxyl cannabinoids. They aren't useful for someone who needs the ACTIVE constituents that we know as Marijuana's ingredients, as medicine. We haven't studied CBDa and THCa nor any of the cannabolic acids to know if they are good for things that traditional NSAIDs and COX-2 inhibitors are good for; they might be just as good and have safer doses and be less detrimental to the circulatory system as you'll see below. Until then we just don't know.

Pseudo-science that "everybody knows already LOL" and descriptions like "will cause more of a cerebral effect" are useless! What are you even talking about? The less you process, the less actives there are and the more actual cannabis you have to use. The more unprocessed cannabis you consume, the more cannabolic acids you are consuming! More on this below.

The "cerebral vs sedative" effect is actually determined by the existing cannabinoid ratios in the plant material AND the temperature you decarboxylate at and for how long.

So no, carboxyl cannabinoids NOR incompletely decarbed bud (your "partially active cannabis") is recommendable for someone who needs the active ingredients in marijuana. Fact. Besides, COX-2 inhibitors like the ones we have over the counter and the ones found in cannabis ie THCa and CBDa CAN cause problems in people who don't need them or people who take them often because they cause a change in prostacyclin production and can induce heart attacks in people with illness if used for long periods of time.

http://www.medicinalgenomics.com/wp...12/Drug-Metab-Dispos-2008-Takeda-1917-211.pdf

http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/ar609.pdf

Even though cannabolic acids are weaker COX-2 inhibitors than the lab made ones we have and are proven to be detrimental to your bodys system of regulating and avoiding heart disease, they are strong enough to still have a measurable effect on the circulatory system as seen in the first link I posted. It even has graphs for noobs.

So, as you can see...

 

Is that so?


From an earlier thread....


-------------------------


That being said, I would also try lengthy/long-term cold extractions of bioavailable, but 'inactive' THCA (in addition to what you've been doing, since it's obviously working!), to see if she responds or benefits from that form of treatment as well. THCA has cancer-fighting, and ***anti-inflammatory*** benefits all of its own, which are unique, compared to the similar benefits provided by 'activated' THC. - BKS


"“THCA” =D9-THCA = Delta9-THCA A: D9-tetrahydrocannabinol acid – This is the precursor to THC and is typically the most abundant cannabinoid produced in most plants grown at present. (Dried cannabis typically contains 15-25% THCA.) A large fraction (but not all ) of the THCA converts to THC upon strong heating (> 200F). The amount converted depends on the details of the temperature and timing.

THCA has been shown to have anti-spasmodic and anti-proliferative (anti-cancer) properties, as well as evidence of anti-inflammatory activity. (In fact, there are other acid forms of THC, but they are almost always present in only very small quantities. THCA A and THCA B differ only in the placement of the carboxylic acid group. THCA A is almost always the version referred to when no designation is made.)


“THC"= “D9-THC” = Delta9-THC = D9-tetrahydrocannabinol – Thought to be the most psychoactive of the cannabinoids and largely attributed with many beneficial medical properties, such as pain relief, appetite stimulation, anti-spasmodic properties, anti-emetic properties and many more. Plants don't produce this compound directly. (Dried plant material contains only a few percent THC.) It is produced from THCA (see next entry) by heating or exposure to UV light. Not all THCA ends up as THC. Heating has been shown to convert at most about 70% of the THCA into THC. The “D9” in the name indicates the specific location of a carbon-carbon double-bond in one of the rings" Some Medicinal Properties of Cannabinoids | halentlabs.com


--------------



Again, you have no involvement in the real medical community, and you support a patent (keep in mind, patents for goggles that allow you to see Santa Clause also exist) released by a company in the UK, GW Pharmaceuticals, who produces Sativex.

It's speculated that their business is only legally allowed to operate because it degrades cannabis, and because they produce a product that patients widely do not find relief or success with, when compared to the edibles and tinctures provided by the active medical community.



But it's your right to continue supporting 'Big Pharma', and the businesses that ruin cannabis for the rest of us.


I suppose you probably also believe marinol is superior to the meds produced in the professional clinics in all our medical states, too.

 

Why not.... here's a list of the medicinal benefits, that are provided by, what you consider 'not medically useful' cannabinoids, with their carboxyl groups still attached....


http://www.halent.com/Resources/Cannabinoids Primer New.pdf


Common Cannabinoids:


“CBGA” = cannabigerol acid– CBGA is the primary cannabinoid from which all others derive. The
plant first makes CBGA and then converts it, sometimes in several sequential steps, into the others.
There are three major branches: (1) THCA and derivatives, (2) CBDA and derivatives, and (3) CBCA
and derivatives. At certain stages of development, significant amounts of CBGA are observed in plant
samples, but typically there is less than 2% at harvest. Like many of the acid forms of cannabinoids, it
has been reported to have anti-inflammatory properties.


“THCA” =9-THCA = 9-THCA A: 9-tetrahydrocannabinol acid – This is the precursor to THC
and is typically the most abundant cannabinoid produced in most plants grown at present. (Dried
cannabis typically contains 15-25% THCA.) A large fraction (but not all ) of the THCA converts to
THC upon strong heating (> 200F). The amount converted depends on the details of the temperature
and timing. THCA has been shown to have anti-spasmodic and anti-proliferative (anti-cancer)
properties, as well as evidence of anti-inflammatory activity. (In fact, there are other acid forms of
THC, but they are almost always present in only very small quantities. THCA A and THCA B differ
only in the placement of the carboxylic acid group. THCA A is almost always the version referred to
when no designation is made.)
Reported effects: antiproliferative (anticancer), antispasmodic1


“CBDA” = cannabidiol acid – CBDA is at the top of the second major branch of CBGA derivatives
and is thought to concentrate in the glandular hairs. It has been shown to exhibit anti-proliferative (antitumor)
effects, among several other attributes. Some strains of cannabis occasionally yield plants that
produce more CBDA than THCA, which, after heating, means more CBD than THC. Many patients
prize these samples since they seem to exert many beneficial medical effects without the sometimes
disorienting “high” associated with similar doses of THC. Most plant samples contain less than 2%
CBDA. However, the few samples that do produce large amounts often contain over 10% CBDA (and
only ~5% THCA).
Reported effects: antiproliferative (anticancer)1


“CBCA” = cannabichromene acid – CBCA sits at the top of the third major “daughter” branch of
cannabinoids from CBGA. A recent patent claims that CBCA is produced primarily in the sessile
trichomes of the plant (those without stalks). CBCA is thought to possess anti-inflammatory,
antibacterial, and antifungal activity. "




There is a wide, wide world of medicinal benefit out there, and if you'd put down that patent, which most patients have had nothing but failure with when following, and if you'd stop plugging your ears and singing 'lalala I'm not listening', you may learn something.

 

LOL wow. So you copied and pasted information about the carboxyl cannabinoids that proves what I'm saying is right, true and correct! Thank you! They are not active and do not do anything for someone who is using current cannabis based medicine techniques nor for someone looking for psychoactivity. We can't confidently use the acids (aka unready cannabis, undried, fresh plant) as medicine for psychiatric disorders becuase they exhibit no psychoactive effects. You also can't suggest them for COX-2 inhibition because relavant doses and sideeffects/long term effects haven't been documented. You are trying to pass off the acids as another side of the "cerebral VS sedative" coin when IN FACT these are not psychoactive at all therefore do not contribute to EITHER pole of the phyto-cannabinoid induced effect spectrum.

Your copy and paste you did just proved what I said above, but in "authoritative words". Why did you do this to your self? You aren't a leading insight on this information, you just repeat what sounds good and fits your so called "researched" beliefs.

 

You've said here, and in countless other threads, that carboxyl-containing cannabinoids have 'no medicinal value'. Nice try going back on your theory, though.


And again, since you need things broken down for you, and you can't follow a paragraph: I never said inactive cannabinoids were appropriate for psychoactive uses.


Stop putting words in my mouth, every single time you're wrong. It just makes it all the more apparent that you're grasping at straws.

 

I stand by the statement. Carboxyl cannabinoids have no medicinal value to people who need the ACTIVE ingredients of marijuana.

The proposed medicinal value of the carboxyl cannabinoids, while probably existing, aren't researched nor documented. COX-2 controls inflammation but also coagulation in the bloodstream and in fact we know that ingesting acids that are COX-2 inhibitors CAN be bad in the long term.

I laid out these truths and all you can do is fall back on your pseudo science. Cerebral vs sedative....is all about ratios of active cannabinoids and not about the carboxyl cannabinoids. While you suggested in your first mega-dump of a post that they have an effect on the outcome of the edible dose. THEY DO NOT.

Anybody who can read, can see this.

 

Oh, so NOW you think to mention that those who need active ingredients, don't need carboxyl cannabinoids.


You do realize there is an ENORMOUS difference, between that, and saying, and I quote: 'they aren't useful for someone who needs marijuana as a medicine', right? You can comprehend this, correct?


Obviously people who need active cannabinoids, and their specific benefits, should be using activated cannabinoids. I feel silly even typing that out... but then again, I am trying to explain this to the only person on the entire forum who doesn't seem to get it.

 

You make yourself sound silly - by assuming people know how to use the acids in cannabis as medicine. There is no reports around of people using this and if they are, its in uncontrolled settings with room for error and even for causing sickness by overconsuming COX-2 inhibiting acids. Do you even know what COX-2 and COX-1 are and what they are responsible for?

You are trying to spin this, but you suggested leaving carboxyl cannabinoids for a patient who needed advice that is checkable and backed by science. Carboxyl cannabinoids haven't been tested or used as medicine so far. Your first post in this thread shows you don't really know what you're talking about when it comes to edible doses and the actives.

You feel foolish typing that out? It's because you might just be. What kind of people do you believe would benefit from carboxyl cannabinoids? Oh thats right, you don't know because no one knows and it's not being studied so your whole argument is moot and over. Now you can try to make up for it by saying "people who need da acids r supposed 2 take the acids", but everyone who is following this melodrama knows you fucked up. Get over it.

 

I suggested nothing of the sort, I gave them the information needed, explaining how the medical community as a whole uses a range of activation, to provide a range of different experiences, so that the OP could decide for him/herself what type of medicine they needed.
And yes, 'carboxyl cannabinoids' are absolutely used in medicine, both in edibles, and tinctures, have you never been in a clinic or patient treatment seminar before? Probably not, from the sounds of it.

They are INCREDIBLY useful for frail patients, suffering from epilepsy, MS, Parkinson's and for patients suffering from other similar ailments, who wish to achieve medicinal benefits from cannabis, without the narcotic or heady side-effects. I work extensively with caregivers, and with patients suffering from these conditions, and others, on a daily basis.



You're really not done shoving words into peoples mouths, and making stuff up yet?

 

I linked to PROOF they (the carboxyl's, for the folks following) are medicinal compounds, I'm waiting for you to prove or link to some sort of proof that they are useful and used - not by people in the MMJ community or in the business, but by people who's findings are being peer reviewed or at least are published with some credibility.

I would love to see proof that CBDa, THCa, and all the other compounds are IN FACT useful for these chronic diseases. You can't find this information cause it doesn't exist. On the other hand, the endocannabinoid system is well known to be connected to almost every other endogenous system in one way or another and active cannabinoids are proven to help people with MS, and Parkinsons. Is it possible that the described "benefit" your "patients" are getting are from the compounds that are actually proven and known to help those ailments and to relieve stress and inflammation, INSTEAD of it being done by the carboxyl cannabinoids? You are wrong here and you know it.

The "medical benefits of cannabis" that are perceivable and that you claim people receive benefit from cannot be caused by the carboxyl cannabinoids because carboxyl cannabinoids are merely weak COX-2 inhibitors and it's effects aren't something you can feel, per se. Therefore, the "medical benefits of cannabis" that you so eloquently and broadly described are in fact attributable to every ingredient in cannabis EXCEPT the acids.