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Rumple's LED Challenge

Discussion in 'Hydroponic Grow Journals' started by Rumpleforeskin, Oct 25, 2009.

  1. #1 Rumpleforeskin, Oct 25, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 21, 2010
    The folks at ProSource Worldwide Inc asked if I would be willing to use their line of LED grow lamps in my legal medical grow-op. I agreed to use them as long as they supplied the lamps at no cost, I was free to give my opinions (good or bad), and I can post the results here.



    A few conditions:
    • They pick the lamps
    • They set all the room's environmental parameters (heat, humidity, CO2)
    • They set the lamp distance from the plants.
    • They pick the number of plants to grow.
    I will do the rest of the growing exactly the same as I do with my HID lamp.

    Many of my past statements have been very critical of LED lamps and the folks who sell them.
    I would like nothing more then to give a rave review to Prosource, if what they say is true. They have the balls to allow me of all people, to write a review for everyone to see. Unfortunately I have some doubts going into this, but I won't let that get in the way of the truth.

    I think its time we get an unbiased review of current LED grow light technology.

    Lets Get This Party Started:

    Prosource sent me two Illuminator Jumbo UFO 180W lamps to be tested. They came in a plain box. The packaging was excellent.

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    I did not find any instructions or literature included with the lamps, but it seems simple enough and may not require any additional instruction. I did call and ask about the four toggle switches located on the back side of the lamp. Prosource said to keep them all in the on position (no markings on/off could be found). But... After plugging it in, it became obvious that marking the switches might not be necessary. The more toggles that are on, the higher the lamp's light intensity became.
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    The heavy duty hangers and mounting hardware seemed more then adequate. I hate strings or rope hangers, so I was real happy to see it was already equipped with steal leaders and clips.
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    A close up of the sticker on the back.
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    Installing them was a breeze. I used my existing mounts and chains.
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    I mounted them centered in my 2'x4' closet. So it leaves a gap about 6" between the lamps and a little over 6" between the walls and the lamps,
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    After plugging the lamps in, I noticed a very slight hum. It looks to have four small PC fans mounted inside the case. You have to listen hard to even hear it. I could feel no heat radiating from the units, even after leaving it on for a few hours. The light is hard to look directly at while on.
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    The clone went in Friday, but I am counting today as day one of veg. The little clone had a bit of shock the first 24 hours under the lamp. This is not that unusual after talking to other LED growers. Going from my florescent bars in the clone room to this lamp can be a bit of a shock for anyone. So I allow a 24 hours adjustment period. During adjustment, some of the leaf tips got brown.
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    Prosource instructed me to install the lamps between 16" and 18" above the plant during the veg cycle.
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    Day one of veg:
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    Day 3 of veg:
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    Day Seven of Veg:
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    Day Ten of Veg and Day One of Flowering:
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    Day 4 of Flowering:
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    Day 10 of Flowering:
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    Day 17 of Flowering:
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    Day 24 Of Flowering:
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    Day 31 Of Flowering:

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    Day 38 Of Flowering:
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    Day 45 Of Flowering:
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    Day 53 of Flowering:
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    Day 59 Of Flowering:
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    Day-72 of Flowering *Harvest Day!* (82 days total grow time).
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    __________________












    Harvest weight 7¼ Ounces (dried and ready to smoke):
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    Summary:

    Prosource's LEDs beat my expectations by a mile. I used to believe it did not matter how many watts of LEDs you put over a plant, it would come out undersized and deformed (big top with no bottom). I was wrong about this and apologizes (ok, I said it). On the other hand, the LEDs did not live up to their wild advertisement's and unbelievable claims of being able to beat larger HIDs. In fact they seemed to be unable to match the HIDs "watt for watt" output. Now I am glad we did the test the way we did it and not used less wattage.

    I was impressed on how cool the units actually are and the advantages that come from this. Folks told me CFLs are cool, but compared to the LEDs they are no match. I still needed to ventilate to keep the heat from building, but the sound of my cooling system engaging became a rare occurrence. I saved a ton of compressed CO2 on this grow , this is a huge selling point for me.




    Pros:
    • LESS HEAT! (a lot less)
    • Compact design
    • Low maintenance (never change a bulb)
    • Better for the veg cycle (more branches)
    • Easy to hang (balanced right out of the box)
    • Secure mounting (heavy duty wire leaders and clip)
    • Good packaging
    • Easy to clean.
    • No noise
    • Long power cord (forgot to measure it)
    • Plugs into normal wall outlet (no ballast required or special plugs)
    Cons:
    • PRICE! ($700 each... Come on.)
    • Less yield at harvest
    • Not a good choice for the flowering cycle (smaller lighter buds)
    • Untrue comparisons to HIDs in the advertisements and literature.
    • Did I say price?

    The "Question"........ What would I use if all lights came at the same price?



    I am not done with LEDs! I think I can do better then that last grow. Perhaps with some adjustments to light height and room parameters I could come closer to matching my HID output. After seeing first hand the advantages of growing without heat, I'm sold. No way I'm giving up now.

    But...... What if I had to buy the lights. ....
    Sorry Prosource, I'm not Bill Gates. I can't afford to buy the lights at that price. My money goes to a cool-tube and e-ballast every time.

    Thanks for watching.
    Peace, R
     
  2. #2 Rumpleforeskin, Oct 25, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2009
    Prosource has control over the room environment. My Sentinel CHHC1 room controller is set to cool the room at 85ºF down to 82ºF.
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    Humidity is set to 30% max.
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    CO2 is set to maintain room saturation at 1900 ppm.
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    Prosource opted for a single plant grow vs a two or three plant setup.

    They also wanted to use two 180 watt UFO lights to replace my single 400 watt HID. This is the part I did not understand or agree with. Their website says a single 180 watt UFO can replace a 600 watt HID, yet they feel the need to double up in my grow space. This has always been my main issue with LED advertisements and literature. I like the folks at Prosource but I do not believe the claims on their site. I don't want to harp too much on this until I see what over-kill can do in my setup. So lets all get past this one sour point and move on to growing some killer weed.
     
  3. :hello:

    Hell yes Rump, this is what I've been waiting for!

    really glad to see ya back around the city, Bro!

    I'm on board for this op, I've been dieing to see the full potential of current LED technology!
     
  4. Uh oh the king is back!

    Thats awesome theyre letting ya try em out for free but doesnt that kinda make the company look suspicious by testing them on a mj grow, even though its legal?

    Hope all works out well, these would definately make running DWC during the summer alot easier if they really dont affect temps that much.
     
  5. :hello:

    Glad to see your sacrificing a crop cycle for the benifit of the GC community mate, I've subscribed to the thread and can't wait to see the progress.

    I like that your replacing a 400w HID setup with a 400w LED setup, it should show if LEDs are atleast as good as HID bulbs in a watt for watt comparison test (no i dont believe in LED power = "equivilent HID power" claims, just as i dont believe the numbers on CFL bulbs advertising "equivilent incandesant power")
    I deffiently think you went the right way about testing the system.

    You do have plenty of Bud from the Last grow for you and your miss's just incase things go pearshape tho right? ;)
     
  6. #6 Rumpleforeskin, Oct 25, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2009
    I agree with everything you said Joe. We did stash a few jars just in case this does not work. I caution folks to wait to see the results before running out and buying this lamp.

    WFT! I never left. I just got through doing Lets Build a Clone Machine *Step-By-Step* and have been doing daily posts. I guess I need to get out of my threads more.
     
  7. .....
     
  8. any ways Bro if anyone can do it it would be you, i hope to have some pics for ya next week if all goes well.
    my outdoor is going off darn it all i went out late last night and one of the branches wich actually looks like a plant in itself got so heavy from the rain that it snaped and was on the ground:mad: oh well i propt it up til daylight so i can see if i can repair any damage the thing must be 4 or 5 ft wide.
     
  9. hows your eyes rump? i know that $hit must be brite has hell with two of them and mylar. my one hurts my eyes. good luck and cant wait to see the total yeild.
     
  10. Rumple i have 2 questions for ya, 1 do you have the specs for the led lights? Id like to compare them to other lights just too see how things should work out mathematically.

    2nd, what do your water temps run at with the room at 82? as far as I can tell your not doing anything to cool the water.
     

  11. My nutrients are the same temps as the grow room. I don't use a chiller.
    You can check the details here: Illuminator Jumbo UFO 180W
     

  12. Sorry to hear that about your plant. Can't wait to see your pictures.
     
  13. Thanks for the link. So im guessing your still changing out your nutes on a regular basis to keep away the rot and other problems?
     

  14. oh, haha, I guess I need to get out of the advanced section more, because I've been watching your Rumple's collage of harvests and bud shots thread go unattended since june, I just hadn't seen ya in a while. Glad to know you never left. :D
     
  15. I'll tune in for this one! If anyone can grow with kooky disco lights its Rumple!:cool:
     
  16. im really interested in how the LED lights will preform, my dad has been an electrician for around 30+ years and keeps telling me LED is the greatest and that i should be growing with them because it will save me power. if these turn out killer bud and a large yield i will take him much more seriously. cant wait to see more.
     
  17. Well I am only saving power on ventilation at this point. I was able to turn off a 4" fan that cooled the HID bulb. Other then that, it's about the same amount of watts being used to provide light.
     
  18. So since its a single plant are you gonna veg if for longer than last time you did a single plant? I remember you didn't have you screen full and it hurt your yield pretty bad. Technically you have a better shot at achieving a Lb from a single plant this time around.
     
  19. I'll be tuning in for this. I may just be convinced to get an led if this all goes well for ya rumple.
     
  20. Nothing against you personally Rumple but using two lights with equal watts is pointless IMO. The manufactures have touted for years the reasons to buy LED over the standard HID/HPS was the saving in electricity.

    We've all figured out how to effectively cool our grows so the only thing left to consider is electricity consumption. They should stand behind their claims that their 180 unit out performs a 400 HPS. Without using the manufactures own claims as a benchmark the whole test is already biased.


    I hope everything go's well for your grow. With that being said, I won't be purchasing their product even if the outcome is similar or slightly better than your standard setup because they already altered the test by adding more light than they claim you need.


    Subscribed.

    Mr-B
     

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