RSO edibles

My experience is that whole herb needs infusion, but that concentrates don't. I can't tell any strength difference between whole herb edibles and FECO pills made from the same amount of original herb.

 

If you make edibles with RSO it's best not to add any more heat. You can do this many many ways. (make brownies and mix the RSO in some icing) Reason being that THC at higher temperatures or decarbed for longer than it needs to be starts degrading to CBN and CBD (This is why your friends felt sleepy) The same is true for decarbed BHO as they have roughly the same chemistry just a different composition from a different method of extraction. So if its THC you're after its best not to re-decarb by heating again. You can always just put a little on what you're eating or I like to just eat it. Lol Tastes like dank prunes to me.

 

Making edibles with RSO is no different than making edibles with decarbed material extracted into oil except that it's easier. It's easier than BHO because it's already decarbed. Use it like distillate. It's already active. Using it in a baked good or other edible that used heat isn't going to degrade it in any way. Mix it in warn oil or butter or directly in some chocolate and use it in a recipe. There's not enough internal heat during the baking to cause any issues.

 

I disagree with the above user and here's why.
We all know the optimal THC decarb for almost anything is 240 @ 40. Well the RSO is already there. Making virtually all the THC-A already available by losing the A molecule. Well what about the CBD you ask? A lot of the CBD will still have the carboxyl group joined as it takes longer/higher heat to decarb CBD and CBN. So, when you re-decarb (like baking with it or adding any more heat) you're actually decarboxilizing the CBD & CBN at this point not the THC and cooking anything (even cookies) does this to some degree. I know that baking temperatures do decarb cannabinoids for sure. (anything over 210f anyway) When I was young and stupid i put raw weed in brownie mix, cooked at a slightly lower temp. and got baked. (I don't recommend this lol)
Anyway, when you decarb the CBD and CBN you make the CBD/CBN more available while not really affecting the THC except possibly burning some off.
Why is this bad? You might ask? Don't I want all my CBD/CBN activated?
CBD actually counteracts the psyco-active effects of THC and even in its carboxyl form has all the known health benefits of CBD it's just not psyco-active. CBN is also known to counteract the psyco-active effects of THC and will only make you tired when more psyco-active (decarbed)
So in short...reheating already decarbed cannabinoids really just results in a less intense THC (typical high) by activating the CBD which counteracts the THC and a very sleepy one by activating the CBN. (This is why your friends felt sleepy and not really high)

 

From https://ardentcannabis.com/cbd-sneak-peek/

"While its commonly believed that CBDa requires a higher or longer temperature than THCa for optimal conversion, the situation is much more nuanced. CBDa can be quite volatile, and as we have shown you before, high temps can quickly degrade potential CBD. It is in fact possible to decarb CBD with the same parameters as THC. The determining factor in CBDa decarb is actually whether THCa is also present. Where THCa is present, even where CBDa is dominant, CBDa and THCa will decarb simultaneously and at the precision temps that work for conversion to THC. It is only where THCa is minimal or not present that CBDa may require longer (2 cycle) processing."

 

That site also says not to use an oven/stopetop or pressure cooker to make oil/butter or cook with cannabis. So if he's asking if he should bake with it what's the point of that. I have personally used all those BTW and they work well.
It also says not even to infuse cannabis into oil or make edibles at all with it. It says to just to eat decarbed herb with butter or coconut oil (yuck) Which again goes against what he's asking and I've had poor results with just eating decarbed herb and oil.
Can't you see that's a sales based marketing site? I wouldn't believe it.
They just want to push their Nova machine
I mean, just think about it bro...why would it matter if THC is present or not CBD/CBN take longer to decarb and that's a fact.
I also have experience to speak from as I have made several batches of oil decarbing at different times (40 mins up to 6 hours) and I think anyone who has will tell you the same thing. Longer decarb brings out the CDB/CBD and doesn't make you feel as high more tired. This isn't just me. It's also many people, just read around or ask anyone who has done the same thing. The science speaks through the results. More decarb = more CBD/CBN

 

I'm just reporting.
Combining two different chemicals cbd and thc could affect decarb of both. Only experiment can tell. Ardent claims to have done the experiment. The issue is whether you think they are lying or got the experiment wrong.
We agree that some of their recipes are sub-optimal, but they all still work.

 

I'm telling you I've personally experimented with decarboxilizing RSO (or not) at different times and for me I have always felt the raw RSO (decarbed during the process) to be the most potent (my wife and her father and my friend agree) and the longer the decarb the more CBD/CBN like and less THC like effects. I've also read similar stuff online and if you think about the science it makes sense. Just my 2

 

CBN does not decarb. It's degradation. CBDA does decarb at the same rate as THCA and I have the lab tests to prove it. Actually, I have the lab tests to pretty much shoot down everything you've said and they're posted in the forum.

While that link bkarnaze posted is a marketing site, it does have correct information about the process as most of those kinds of sites do. You just have to pick out the marketing and ignore it. It helps to find other sources to back it up and there are plenty on this subject. And it's never as simple as A + B = C. Here are a couple of real time examples.

Another Tincture Thread - Try it, Youll like it
Another Tincture Thread - Try it, Youll like it

 

Okay Mr lab tests....check this out
Cannabinol (CBN)
CBN does decarb. You're referring to the creation of CBN-A which happens first.

Also, excess heat removes the hydrogen molecules and oxidizes converting THC to CBN which proves my point. Don't bake with RSO unless you want CBN
From THC to CBN

Look closely at the word tetrahydrocannabinol and note that cannabinol (CBN) is in the name. In fact, various factors can convert THC into CBN, a process that includes the following:

• THCA also converts to CBNAwhen it loses hydrogen molecules and oxidizes
• Like THCA becoming THC, decarboxylation converts CBNA into CBN

 

Like I said, it's not as simple as A+B=C. If you read the link you posted you'll see that the scenario you described is just one of the various factors that converts the CBN. So let's take a look at that whole paragraph to get a better picture.

"From THC to CBN

Look closely at the word tetrahydrocannabinol and note that cannabinol (CBN) is in the name. In fact, various factors can convert THC into CBN, a process that includes the following:

• Cannabigerolic acid (GBGA) is a chemical component in cannabis
• The plant produces enzymes that convert CBGA into various cannabinoids
• One such cannabinoid is tetrahydrocannabinol carboxylic acid (THCA)
• The decarboxylation of THCA (usually through heat) converts it into THC
• THCA also converts to CBNA when it loses hydrogen molecules and oxidizes
• The latter process (THCA to CBNA) occurs through prolonged exposure to air
• Like THCA becoming THC, decarboxylation converts CBNA into CBN

Herein lies the irony: Old cannabis that is improperly stored and cured has the highest amounts of CBN. When properly stored, dried flowers are unlikely to top one percent CBN. As the product of THC degradation, CBN is most common in what most people consider poor quality cannabis. Individuals seeking the medicinal benefits of CBN might wish to air-age inexpensive cannabis, but with demand growing, CBN-rich oils, edibles, patches and other delivery devices will become increasingly more available."

When you get down to the brass tacks, it's CBGA that's the determining factor in what gets turned to what and can even turn CBDA into THC. All the cannabinoids can have acids, including CBN. As your link says, though, the process of THCA to CBNA occurs through prolonged exposure to air (aging) and is just one of many. Once the CBNA is present then it will decarb like all the rest. You have to age or excessively overheat your cannabis to get the conditions that would lead to the formation of CBNA in the first place. If you have fairly fresh cannabis you're not going to get much CBN.

In cases where strain isn't a factor and the results lead to over-sedation, it's often the extraction process itself that's to blame. With proper processing the end product should mimic the strain characteristics of the RSO/BHO or flowers used.

 

I really don't see anything refuting what I said. Decarboxilizing does occur in CBN-A and heat can make THC-A loose it's hydrogen group...and oxidoze.
You have to admit (if you know your chemistry) even minimal heat would accelerate this chemical reaction some.
Do I think edibles made with RSO are bad or won't work? No, but even you have to admit taking that in to account it would to some degree decrease the THC and decarb the CBN making for a less "high" and more sleepy feeling. Even if slightly...i was just trying to tell the guy how to maximize the THC in his BHO.

 

It's great that you're responding to these threads and creating new ones. We need folks that are willing to help others and infuse new ideas. Kudos to you for that and for the lively debate here. Don't be afraid to stand up for your ideas and be open to accepting new ideas. That's how we progress. There were a lot of things that I was so sure of when I first started but I've learned that there are no absolutes and an open mind is a good thing to have.

Please keep in mind that nothing you or I have said here is wrong. It's just a matter of detail and interpretation and experience since there's still not a lot of real data on the subject.

 

So true my friend, I suppose it is debatable at best until the Feds legalise it then we can get some more reliable lab data.
I just wanted to put in my 2 cents about it from my experience.

 

RSO is already decarbed and there's no need to do more. You asked what the difference was between it and decarbed BHO. I'm sorry but I assumed that you knew that RSO was already activated and thought you were using "decarbed" as an adjective there. And this whole spiel was due to my misunderstanding.

Your rso is like your decarbed BHO and does not need to be decarbed like BHO. It's ready to either dissolve into your oil/butter/whatever with just a little warmth to help but no further heat or you can just add it to your baking mix and stir it in, although mixing it with the oil in the recipe would give you more consistent results. RSO just has some of the other plant compounds not found in BHO.

You have the right idea, though, for figuring out which of two/more opinions is closer to the truth...side by side. Straight into your oil will do the job.

 

Sounds good.