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Root APHIDS Thread Identify and destroy

Discussion in 'Sick Plants and Problems' started by rain dancer, Nov 14, 2013.

  1. #1 rain dancer, Nov 14, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2014
    Havent grown in a year or so, just started a new grow.

    One of my seeds popped a week ago but after burying it like I did the others, one still hadnt shown its head yet. I figured it either molded or died so I dug it up. To my surprise, it was COVERED in tiny white clear bugs. I got out my magnifying glass 60x-100x and discovered they looked like some kind of MITE. To the human eye they look like dust....

    I read up and saw that they could be mold mites, but then after adding marijuana to the google search there's a possibility that they're root aphids.

    What treats root aphids? Ive got spinosad, cold pressed neem, captain jacks bug brew, all kinds of stuff to treat all kinds of ailments, but before I proceed, i was curious as to what others think or know these to be. Heres a pic. They are see through when magnified and once i shook some onto glass plate the mite couldnt move anymore. Perhaps its in a stage of developing larvae?

    IMG_5373.JPG

    seriously need some help guys. I buried it back in the soil so the seedling wouldnt dry out. Im not ready to give up yet. Please let me know what to use and what these are. You can zoom in pretty far is you have a computer to put this on.
     
  2. #2 TheAnswer121, Nov 14, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2013
    currently scouring every thread to help you. this is the first thing i found, but i think it's more for above soil issues. http://forum.grasscity.com/sick-plants-problems/25983-nutrientsbugsvarious-problems-guide.html
     
    Aphids - Aphids are soft-bodied insects that use their piercing sucking mouthparts to feed on plant sap. They usually occur in colonies on the undersides of tender terminal growth. Heavily-infested leaves can wilt or turn yellow because of excessive sap removal. Aphids produce large amounts of a sugary liquid waste called "honeydew". The honeydew that drops from these insects can spot the windows and finish of cars parked under infested trees. A fungus called sooty mold can grow on honeydew deposits that accumulate on leaves and branches, turning them black. The appearance of sooty mold on plants may be the first time that an aphid infestation is noticed. The drops can attract other insects such as ants, that will feed on the sticky deposits. Infestations generally result from small numbers of winged aphids that fly to the plant and find it to be a suitable host. They deposit several wingless young on the tenderest tissue before moving on to find a new plant. The immature aphids, or nymphs, that are left behind feed on plant sap and increase gradually in size. They mature in 7 to 10 days and then are ready to produce live young. Usually, all of them are females and each is capable of producing 40 to 60 offspring. The process is repeated several times, resulting in a tremendous population explosions. Less than a dozen aphid "colonizers" can produce hundreds to thousands of aphids on a plant in a few weeks. Aphid numbers can build until conditions are so crowded, or the plant is so stressed, that winged forms are produced. These winged forms fly off in search of new hosts and the process is repeated.


    Solution - Early detection is the key to reducing aphid infestations. The flight of winged colonizers cannot be predicted, so weekly examination of plants will help to determine the need for control. Examine the bud area and undersides of the new leaves for clusters or colonies of small aphids. The presence of these colonies indicates that the aphids are established on the plants and their numbers will begin to increase rapidly. Fatty acid salts or insecticidal soaps are very good against aphids. They apparently work to disrupt insect cell membranes. They require direct contact with the insects and leave no residual effect. Nervous system insecticides, such as malathion, Dursban (chlorpyrifos), and Orthene (acephate), are labeled for use on many shade trees and ornamental plants for aphid control. As with soaps, coverage is very important and a follow-up application may be necessary. Sevin (carbaryl) is not effective against many aphids so it is generally not a good choice for control unless recommended specifically. In fact, applications of Sevin may reduce the number of beneficial insects, such as lady beetles, and increase the potential for aphid outbreaks. Beneficial insects, such as lady beetles and lacewings may eat large numbers of aphids but the reproductive capability of aphids is so great that the impact of the natural enemies may not be enough keep these insects at or below acceptable levels. To keep aphids and other pests off your plants just finely chop1 onion and 2 medium cloves of garlic. Put ingredients into a blender with 2 cups of water and blend on high. Strain out pulp. Pour liquid into spray bottle. Spray a fine mist on plants, making sure to coat both tops and bottoms of leaves.
     
     
    i keep getting pointed to this [​IMG]someone else may confirm
     
  3. Thanks for the help answer. Its a below soil problem. Two of my 10 or so plants didn't pop through the soil. The first was all white n creamy and just mushy. Soil wasn't that wet either, but thses little bastards are stunting the growth of this lil plant. I'm going to remove the seedling, sumberge it in a stream of water and let those suckers wash off, then replant and watch it. I'll do some reading of my own to find out wtf these things could be.

    I've dealth with every bug from aphids, to spider mites, caterpillars, tent worms, had beneficial mites, etc, but none that were stunting the seedlings growth like this. Weird thing is they were hiding inside the partially opened seed. I pulled the "hood" off the seedling and they were all over....fuckin sux man.

    Jus needa find out if any of my chemicals can save them, I also have bacillus theregenissis (bt).
     
  4. #4 TheAnswer121, Nov 14, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2013
    this should take care of anything in the soil
     
  5. #5 rain dancer, Nov 14, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2013
  6. Taken from another site:

    So I looked under the 100x microscope and found two "tail pipes" on the end of the bugs......

    According to the post I found elsewhere that's a sure sign :(

    Wish someone who knew definitively would chime in. Appreciate your help though answer
     
  7. #8 TheAnswer121, Nov 14, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2013
    @[member="GoldGrower"] @[member="mmman"] ur $.02 please
     
  8. #9 rain dancer, Nov 14, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2013
    I pmed OSUB as well, just in case.

    Perhaps Jerry knows too.

    Problem I'm having is that they don't look like any of the pics of root aphids. Also, they are completely clear. Looks like water almost and you can see through them. Also, unlike the pics of "tail pipes" I see online that are in the middle of the back and stick up, these "tail pipes" are at the end of the butt and drag along the ground.
     
  9. #11 rain dancer, Nov 15, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2013
    So apparently azomax doesn't work at all, nor does pyrethrum, in fact, not a single store bought chemical kills these little bastards. The ONLY thing that works and kills them in 24 hours is a fungus developed to kill them. it's called BOTANIGARD

    Proof not to waste your money on other stuff:
    http://www.rollitup.org/bugs/518472-root-aphids-hypoaspis-miles-purposely.html

    http://www.amazon.com/BotaniGard-22WP-Biological-Insecticide-1lb/dp/B007ROV0BU/ref=reg_hu-rd_add_1_dp

    And it's expensive. The reviews will sell you on it, guaranteed.

    I'm going to wait and see if I do have a pest or predator mite since I'm using fox farm soil, which recently added predator mites without telling anyone :smh:

    Lots of people freaking out when they see a buncha little mites walking around the base of their plants....
     
  10. #12 OhioStateBuckeyes, Nov 16, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 21, 2013
    they appear to be soil mites and not root aphids.
     
     
    the common "root aphid" is black - not white.
     
     
    aphids are generally much larger than that as well.
     
     
    soil mites will not harm your plant & will only contribute to the soil. there is no need to try and kill them.
     
     
    on the other hand, your seedling could have trouble sprouting in foxfarm soil, depending on the brand of theirs that you used.
     
     
     
    edit: BotaniGuard did not work to kill root aphids when i was battling them the one time. it was completely ineffective.
     
  11. #13 rain dancer, Jan 4, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2014
    Here's a link to elsewhere describing my exact problem and I'll post links to the treatment as well.

    https://www.greenpassion.org/index.php?/topic/25431-phyloxera-root-aphid/
    These guys described exactly what my plants are doing.


    https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=159960
    As did this thread.

    Going to try these two treatments next
    http://t.homedepot.com/p/Bayer-Advanced-32-oz-Concentrate-Tree-Shrub-Protect-and-Feed-701810A/202616493


    http://www.amazon.com/Bayer-Crop-Science-701520A-Concentrate/dp/B004BLNVMS/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

    The latter contains imidacloprid which seems to work well against them.

    The problems presents as magnesium deficiency. The leaves begin to get gray spots, twist and curl like a roller coaster. These bugs can be found all around the base of the pot. I have found them under leaves that are dying. They leave the typical swollen round microscopic blob marks of aphids and some mites. It's bizarre.

    I've done a ton of reading on many forums, For up to 8 hours at a time. Ph is 6.7

    Worm tea grown from my own worm bins is my only feed and has been for years with amazing results. This issue started my last grow. No remedy seems to fix it. As you said, botinagard does nothing, NOR do nematodes or azomax. There are tons of threads internetwide that make this claim.

    White root aphids are very common, as are yellow. There are thousands of black adult bodies in the corners of my tent. I thought they were dust until I inspected further and closer. I've tried cold pressed neem mixed with soap, pyrethrum, and other chemicals to no avail. I really didn't want to go sytemic since I grow organic but I'm out of options and need my meds, so I'm going to let them veg another two months to flush out the systemic poisons. I think fox farm ocean forest is contaminated or my grow room is. There was a 1 year break between this grow and my last. Time had no effect on the soil.
     
  12. they're one of the worst pests (probably!!) that can affect your marijuana plants. to kill them, use "Imidacloprid." it's an aphid killer and has been used in several pesticides.
    you can also use Bayer Fruit & Vegetable for Root Aphids
     
  13. the imidacloprid willkill the aphids, as we have used it in the past for aphids, mealybugs, thrips, spider mites, etc IN A COMMERCIAL GREENHOUSE WITH ORNAMENTALS. this stuff is not to be used on plants for consumption.
     
     
    it is a systemic pesticide that will stay in the plant until you harvest (given imidacloprid's half-life).
     
     
    i had the same root aphid problems and started over because i did not want to go the systemic pesticide route. that shit can give you pancreatic cancer.
     
     
    yea sure bayer may say its safe for fruit & vegetables, but bayer also said heroin was a safe alternative to morphine.
     
     
     
    its your call. i wouldnt do it & i would just start over but to each their own  :confused_2:
     
  14. #16 rain dancer, Jan 6, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2014
    Taken from elsewhere:
    DIFFERENT TYPES OF ROOT APHIDS
    Heres what ive done so far.

    I mixed neem with soap and a rose pesticide my wife had laying around as well ad captain jacks. I sprayed the entire plants and soaked the roots and left the plants tosit for 3 hours to dry. Put them back under the lights the next day.

    No more crawlers after that.

    BUT

    The plants exploded with mature adult flyers.

    SO

    I went ahead and treated with 2tsp per gallon of BAYER TREE AND SHRUB.

    It has a higher concentration of imidicloprin. It also has a chemical called clothianidin. These chemicals are essentially nerve agents for insects and as mentioned, systemic. They have an incredibly long half life and will be taken up by plants.

    Ive waited two days.

    Since then my plants have perked up, however, I've lost 30 percent of my leaves. I pulled them off this morning.

    To my dismay, the population of adult flying root aphids has quadrupled.

    I added a fat layer of diatomaceous earth to the top layer and saw immediate results as the little flyers flipped, flopped and twisted around in what appeared to me to be a slow agony. I also watched last night as a few flyers turned in circles like the honey bees I've seen die locally after farmers used this toxic shit on our fields every year. They dumped 7 MILLION TONS of pesticides on us in central california last year. Cancer is a definite probability.

    Im at a loss. Literally, figuratively, financially and now medically as well.

    These were my best seeds and id saved them for years.

    I ordered some pyrethrin off amazon. Expensive stuff for a tiny bottle. Waiting on that now but says it wont be here for a week.

    I went ahead and mixed 4 ounces of Bayer tree and shrub with 2 ounces of bayer citrus/fruit per gallon, which is a ridiculous amount then set it aside, in the dark in milk containers as a final FUCK YOU to the root aphids should they defeat me in this war. That little pestinuke i mixed up is not to be used to save the plants, but literally wipe these bastards out before i bury this soil in The field next to my home.

    Ive dealt with every kind of bug you can imagine so far in my gardening career and this is the first that has resisted all other forms of natural pesticides and even this current system pesticide. I was reading that it was responsible for a lot of human famines in the history of man.

    I cant afford to start over. I was planning to call it quits on medicinal growing after this grow and if i continue to fail ill hang up my hat. Im placing the blame solely on FOX FARM OCEAN FORREST soil.

    I added a mere handful of new ffof to my very old and sterilized soil when i was putting my grow together. It is winter here and the outside insects are not to be found, especially since it has been freezing here a lot lately. Im a sucker for cleanliness and there is no other way this contaminate could have made it into my soil. The ffof has been stored in a sealed container for almost two years. When i opened it up, the soil was fresh and still wet to my utter surprise (some of it has been stored away for years and years and i brought it back with microbial teas), when i removed it from storage. I should have sterilized it but i didnt. I wont buy any more fox farm ocean forrest. I thought for a long time that i had an isolated case, i also thought i was lucky and had beneficial mites. Google has shown me A LOT of people are getting this pest from fox farm cean forrest! Ive always defeated the fungus gnats with neem and have beaten every pest until now.....

    :(

    I will probably kill these plants in the next few days if the bugs dont get them first.

    My plan was to vegetate for another two months to allow them to come back before putting them into full flower. Not so sure anymore..


    Edit: interesting fact

    What is Imidacloprid used on?

    SO unless youre growing all of the above foods. Youre eating it!

    :smoke:
     
  15. #17 rain dancer, Jan 6, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2014
    More facts:

    Source: http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/haloxyfop-methylparathion/imidacloprid-ext.html
     
  16. i wish you would have posted a picture earlier. those actually look more like soil mites than root aphids. well, the root aphids i had at least.
     
     
    than again, i live on a different side of the US than you. being in central california, wine country, you probably have alot of those fuckers that are resiliant to pesticides. my condolences.
     
     
    when i had them i had to start over, like i said. since than i have added healthy doses of neem & karanja cake to my soil mix before transplanting & i havent had pest problems. i tried the neem cake during the infestation & it failed miserably. just an FYI
     
  17. Thanks for the reply.

    Im actually not 100 percent sure what they are. They could be mites or aphids. The thing that made me lean towards aphids was two "tail pipes" or what looks like exhaust pipes on the rear end of the bugs. Also, the mature adults look nearly identical to fungus gnats, only larger.

    I actually started my grow with a one inch layer of neem cake as part of my soil composition. They've resisted all organic pesticides. I assume like you said that they've built some sort of immunity, due to the extreme pesticide spraying in my area.

    I havent given up. Im still waiting on some pyrethrin. The DE (diatomaceous earth) seemed to eradicate a lot of the adults.

    By my measuring calculation, i added 9.7 ml of bayer tree and shrub per gallon, or around 4.9ish per half gallon. I let the plants sit in this solution overnight, in the dark. After 14 or so hours i removed them, after letting the plants drain into pans to collect run off, which i tossed out. I normally recycle runoff through my tea solutions.

    The plants seem to Be doing a bit better. They are perky, green, and lively. Im not sure if theyll make it. Theyre lsted, and after gong around my 5 gal pots once theyre already 3 feet tall. If they continue to comeback and thrive i will switch them to flower in 30-60 days, but i assume theyll be behemoths by then and i should have a nice flowering period so that i can harvest enough to not grow again for a couple years. Im also going to sterilize all soil in the future. I will look into an outdoor antique oven of some sort to accomplish that as im very serious about gardening.

    Im not sure if youre the member formerly known as osub but i always enjoyed his input and i enjoy yours as well. Thank you for your help, i sincerely appreciate it.

    Ill periodically update this thread to keep you informed on my results.
     
  18. Well I lost

    :(


    Received my order of pyrethrin a few days ago. Decided to do a soak last night. There were lots of little flyers moving about. I figured they were fungus gnats, but they turned out to be adult root aphids. I figured this out by adding potato peels to the soil. Didnt catch a single fungus gnat larvae. Nothing bit tbh.

    I had just finished removing about half of what was left of the leaves when I noticed a partially submerged leaf sticking out of the soil. I grabbed the tip of it and to my surprise, it was a fully buried fan leaf. To my shock and horror it was covered in root aphids. They were completely covering the stem part of the leaf. It looked as if there were about 15 per inch and they were crawling over each other. I called my wife to come look and she made the decision. She looked at all of my plants and her face saddened.

    "they look bad" she said. "I think its time to throw the towel in. Even the new leaves are screwed up."

    I knew she was right. I grabbed a knife and cut them down. I turned the soil over in the field, cutting the roots into pieces then doused the whole grow with that nasty tree and shrub, as I said I would. There wasn't much left of the vegetative growth. The stem was almost two inches around. It looked like a baseball bat. The roots looked healthy too.

    I flicked the switch and my heart sank as my grow room darkened.....

    Defeat is an aweful feeling.

    :(
     
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