I'm curious as to what others thoughts are on the idea of revolution, and whether others have similar thoughts to me. I believe in revolution. I believe there are some serious, fundamental flaws in our societal structures, that cannot be solved within the existing systems. So, I don't believe in tinkering so much. While I am in some ways passionate about political and social issues, at the same time I basically don't care whatsoever about politicians and the political process. Well, there are some exceptions, but for the most part. When elections come around, and people start arguing about this republican vs. that democrat, this and that, I could care less. None of them are going to do anything real. There's a pre-defined direction, and without radical revolution all there will be is tinkering, a little back and forth deviation on various issues, but the overall direction remains unchanged. Many people fear revolution. I understand this somewhat, certainly it is possible for things to be more obviously bad. But, the way it's all set up, things can never be great. And I think we as humanity have the potential for a truly great society. But it cannot come within existing frameworks. And so, with almost any revolutionary talk, I cannot help but feel sympathetic. When it comes to revolution, I'm not so much concerned with bogging myself down with all of the specifics in those who seek revolution. To me, revolution itself is the most fundamental thing. If we're all afraid of theoretical negatives, then we'll just never seriously change things, and all of the negativity and exploitation which currently exists will never end. Ever. And things aren't noticeably terrible, for the most part. This is why people are complacent. It's not so bad, it could be worse. Why shake things up, they think as they imagine a frightening dystopia that they fear could come into existence if real, radical revolution occurred, and our societal structures were truly disassembled. And again, I understand somewhat. But the system is designed for true greatness and equality to be impossible. And so all these people that theoretically want to change things, end up arguing among themselves about the specifics of how they want things to change, often quibbling over minute details and semantics, and so all of the potentially revolutionary forces are divided, and they are no force, incapable of producing change. I support revolution in general. Society can be truly great, there can be happiness at a scale the world hasn't seen before. But revolution is the first step. We must first be willing to overthrow the existing structures, to be able to imagine and accept this idea. Only then is the greatness that exists in the human potential even possible. And I believe in greatness more than mediocrity accepted through complacency and fear of the unknown.
Overthrow whatever you want, society won't get any better. You may be a good person, and your neighbor may be a good person, hell maybe your whole town is filled with upstanding people. But there are too many hurt people, too many damaged, to create this utopia you've imagined. You want to start a revolution? Start by dragging people out of their depressing patterns, the mucky ruts their mental wheels have been grounded in. You could start a new religion or something.
I like your post and your enthusiasm. What Lecter is saying is the fundamental problem behind the ambiguous "revolution." I know what you mean. What you're seeing is what most will see at one time or another in their lives. You're seeing the pattern, my friend. You're seeing beyond the pale, the forest for the trees and you've realized how simple it really is. This simplicity is the most difficult part. Love, kindness, compassion, and the thread of humanity that binds us all is so easily extended, duplicated, and unfolding at a factorial pace. The problem is the hurt. Hurt makes you blind. Hurt makes you hate. Hurt makes you afraid, complacent, chomping at the bit, indecisive, us against them, looking for a single thing that makes you happy. When the truly hurt find something that makes them happy, no matter how unhealthy it may be, it is the hardest thing to risk letting go of. Especially for the promise of something "greater." Many have come before you in your understand and many will come after - it is this schism of connection that is the impossible roadblock, the disjointed nature of epiphany and consensus. How many times in your life have you disagreed with someone, only to think years later...."that dude just might have been right - maybe I was the asshole in that argument." I promise you, you have - if you've ever evolved, ever changed, ever fought past repression and pain, at some point you realize how wrong you were and you understand how wrong you will often be from here on out. "Be kind to all you meet. For we are all fighting a difficult battle" - Socrates. "Be change you want to see in the world." Ghandi "Be like little children" - The Christ "Be cool baby, be cool." - The Samuel Jackson. Greatness doesn't come from deed, it comes from understanding. All great men know this, and all "successful leaders" fear this. Revolution is fundamental, but you must first seek the revolution within you. Why do you want to fight, what do you want to change? Start small, grow bigger - be like the nature of life. I feel for ya man. I know that pit of your stomach, can't understand the madness, brink of disgust with what is yet brimming with compassion for what can be. Just breath. Change will come. It always has and always will. Not sure if you've ever seen this. But hopefully this will help with knowing that there are many who feel like you, and always have. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FMNFvKEy4c
There's something vital to be found and to be had that lifts the spirit of man above the mundane obstacles of the conditioned life. Our nature, apprehended, brings awareness of our reality and frees us from conduct derived from our base nature. What we need is a wake-up call to free people from the mental fetters of associating with our conditioned nature as opposed to our infinite and divine nature. Politics is a joke. If we wanted to, we could fix all of our problems on a moment. The issue lies in removing the most lowly desires that drive us away from open mind and open heart. How hard could it be? All we need to do is become enlightened as a society...
I believe its a cycle. No different from any other cycle. It repeats over and over. Humans like security and like to trust eachother. They also like freedom and individuality. They also like stuff. When they have too little freedom and stuff, they tear down the system and rebuild it. They quickly forget history and rebuild the tyrannical system. Then they need a revolution again. Revolution. Rebuild. Prosperity. Depression. Tyranny. Revolution. -yuri
Pretty much sums me up. I cannot stand to meddle around with conversation consisting of changing bits and pieces of the current system. The way in which we currently do things implores conditioning and Complacency. conditioning is never good unless it is brought on by yourself (or you're a child). Simple questions need to be asked honestly, rules ( not really rules) need be followed religiously, such as non-violence. Focusing on the positive aspects all the while giving notice to the negative ones... and building, looking up not so much repenting. So much is wrong it is hard to pin point...precisely why a radical change need be taken place. Life is good now...for the people who make it out to be. It has been long studied what social conditioning does, let's revisit and see what we want to emulate and how to go about doing so. It's simple when you have the right people and attitude.
The only Revolutions (IMO) are those that improve a system, otherwise it's merely degeneration - and this is why ''specifics'' are so important, because without them there is not much likelihood, much less a guarantee, of a Revolution being successful..
The problem is that you get a libertarian movement going...then you get an occupy movement...and the libertarians call the occupiers socialist ignoramuses, and the occupiers call the libertarians cold uncaring conservatives, and the two potentially revolutionary forces cancel each other out rather than than produce a formidable power for change.
I don't trust the revolutionaries to build my utopia. They will build their utopia which could very well be hell on Earth from my stand point. And I would deserve such a fate anyway if I were greedy and short-sighted enough to support a revolution because of my first world problems. There's nothing wrong with being happy with the bountiful existence you are given. There is such a thing as "too perfect".
We live in revolution. The process of life itself is a constant series of revolutions. We grow, we learn and understand and we apply our understanding in new ways and grow more. You can watch a tree grow and see the way it changes and adapts to conditions. We are complex, but our understanding is not so profound. By living by a certain means for an amount of time, we begin to understand our condition. Where we are, what we've gone through and what we need. Revolution is our attempt to bring order where we've discovered chaos. It often takes time for us to acknowledge the need for revolution. We are often busy being occupied in the habits as they are, the system as it is, but as time passes the inadequacies become more clear. It's at that point where we are often in denial. Our energies are so used that we don't have it in us to acknowledge how misplaced they our, how confused and outdated. Knowledge and understanding always reach the point first, but to awaken the masses to our condition is like dragging a sleeping horse through the mud. Let us have it made abundant and clear, there is always a time for revolution and those who wish to blaze trails should be awake and aware of the moment that they should strike the iron. The furnace grows hot and the iron grows red, strike when the flames are ripe!
Orwell summed up revolutions perfectly in Animal Farm. The freedom fighters becomes the oppressors and the cycle continues.
It's actually about adults and for adults. The lessons and subtext about revolution is not really for kids.
It's written in the style of a children's book, is what I'm saying. Either way, oppression is the natural order of things when it comes to revolution. One should not be blinded by petty idealism which capitulates to reactionary values. "If virtue be the spring of a popular government in times of peace, the spring of that government during a revolution is virtue combined with terror: virtue, without which terror is destructive; terror, without which virtue is impotent. Terror is only justice prompt, severe and inflexible; it is then an emanation of virtue; it is less a distinct principle than a natural consequence of the general principle of democracy, applied to the most pressing wants of the country. ... The government in a revolution is the despotism of liberty against tyranny. Is force only intended to protect crime? Is not the lightning of heaven made to blast vice exalted?" -- Maximilien Robespierre
What does that last sentence mean? Holy shit! No wonder they killed that basterd. I wonder if that's the shit Malcom X read in prison? Like if you paid a guard 50 bucks they'd sneak it in.
But they never seem to know what they're going to change exactly, and what they're going to change it into, which is by far the most important part.
Exactly, IMHO everybody wants revolution because they don't have what the next man has. But we don't all want the same things. There's too many people and not enough resources for everyone to have everything they want. Keep the powerful in check and the poor above poverty and have a system that rewards those who are smart and work hard. If we band together and decide the government isn't for sale maybe we have a chance. But revolution would ruin us for generations, I believe.
A message to all of those who are pro-revolution, In order to strengthen your arguments, you should learn more political science. The term "revolution" is extremely ambiguous. I would recommend reading Skocpol's States and Social Revolutions and Trotsky's The Revolution Betrayed. We have so many examples in history of revolutions failing and succeeding. There are a few theories as to how to create a successful revolution. Godspeed Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum