Return of the Herbage - Strawberry Cough/600Watt HPS/Scr0g/etc.

Discussion in 'Hydroponic Grow Journals' started by DarthHerbage, Feb 10, 2009.

  1. Also, I'll get some of that insulation stuff tomorrow.
     
  2. #82 HerbalRemedies, Mar 9, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 9, 2009
    Freeze a few gallons of RO and swap them out whenever you can.

    If you can't spare the RO because of your 3 gallon tank, go buy a few gallons of distilled and freeze them. Make sure you don't fill the jugs all the way up, and freeze with the lid off.

    EDIT: Those "re-freezable" ice packs you get at the store are awesome for cooling a reservoir too. They also stay frozen longer, IMO.
     
  3. Thanks for the advice, Herbal. Your scrog is lookin beautiful, btw.

    I've got a bunch of ice packs and will give them a try if I can't get the temps down.

    However, I think it's going down some.

    Readings before I crash:

    PH: 5.7
    PPM: 210
    Water temp: 69F
    Temperature under light: 77F
    RH: 40%


    Peace.
     
  4. Well, I've almost got enough RO water to dump the res and do some of the things Jim suggested.

    I won't have a PPM meter for awhile, as I sent mine to Hanna to get fixed. I will be able to borrow my friend's from time to time if need be. I, however, will have no way to measure my water temperature until I get my meter back...

    The PH has been rising, but the PPM was only about 140 last time I checked it. The plants continue to grow, but the spotting continues. The leaves are getting crispy and it seems like a race between new growth and whatever's causing the spotting.

    Thursday night I will be able to dump the res, clean it out, soak the roots, and everything etc.

    One thing I really don't understand: How would I go about soaking the hydroton I'm using? I can't really pull the plants out of the pots or I'd never get the roots back through...

    I do, however, think I've came up with a better idea for the temperature in the grow box. Instead of freezing out the whole place I'm going to run some insulated ducting from the AC vent in the room to the closet, which should keep it pretty chilly. Opinions?



    As far as my friend's grow goes, apparently he's still getting crispiness and spotting himself. He's keeping his PPM around 750, PH is fine, water temp is fine (he's in a basement), and plants are getting big. He's seen mine and says it doesn't look like the same thing.

    What causes crispy leaves?

    I'm half asleep so I'm going to bounce lol.

    Later.
     
  5. hey man sorry to hear of more problems. the ac vent is a good ideajust make sure that its primary target of cooling is your res and secondary your room because your ambient room temps seem just fine its your res temps that cause your problems i have my take coming from the crrawlspace in my house( which is always cool no matter what ) and that works very well my ambient room temps get up to about 82F at the highest and my res temps still about 68F and during 75F room temps it stays around 62F all i did was take a y-connector and leave one end open and facing my res and the other end has that flexible ducting attached to it venting into the actual room so if you can do that with your ac vent its worth a shot.

    as far as the spotting goes i dont really want to throw out there too much because ive never used RO water i always switch between tap and distilled for instance ill do 10 gallons tap then 10 distilled. but it could be a variety and/or mixture of things
    -ph burn- (prolly your biggest thing to tackle because of the temp fluxes)
    -nute overfeeding/possibly underfeeding but doubtful at your plants stage of life right now-
    and then possible defficiences but all of them doubtful at your plants age right now so i dunno its strange

    man hopefully after you do what jim suggested it magically fixes itself or if you can at least get a fix on whats really causing it
     
  6. Yeah, I think that I might just stick to Jim's advice and try to vent the reservoir itself. I don't really want a bunch of ducting running around my bedroom. I can't imagine bringin a chick home and bein like "yeah, my closet just really needs to stay cool...ya know?"

    I'm just not sure about the specifics involved. (Going to read all of Jim's thread to see if he put a DIY about it in there) I understand the basic concept from Rumple's thread, but how to attach it to the reservoir is somethign I'm unsure of. I also don't know how I'm going to light proof the intake holes...

    I think you and Jim are right, and it's my res temps causing my PH to flux which is causing the spotting...and crispiness. Still don't know what's causing my friend's crispiness...

    Thanks for stoppin in, Zabaroni.

    Update:

    New growth is good and green, but the spotting keeps taking over the older ones. Doesn't seem to be getting better or worse yet, but I haven't been able to do any of the things Jim mentioned to fix it yet either.

    Sent my PH meter off to get fixed, so I have no clue as to the PPM or water temp right now.

    Keeping the PH good. It's at 5.5 right now. Temperature under the light is 80F. Relative humidity 35.

    Roots seem the same. Spotting seems the same.

    Haven't been able to get over to my friend's house to take pictures, but here's how mine look atm.

    The 1st one looks better than the 2nd. Not sure why...

    Both:

    100_6030 (Large).JPG

    Plant 1 (I really need to name these...):

    100_6031 (Large).JPG

    100_6032 (Large).JPG

    Plant 2:

    100_6033 (Large).JPG

    100_6034 (Large).JPG

    100_6035 (Large).JPG

    100_6036 (Large).JPG

    I'd like some more input as to how to go about attaching a PVC elbow to my reservoir, and how to light proof it and some intake holes...

    I'd like to do it, but as cheaply as possible. And I'd like to get all the stuff in Jim's list done tomorrow as well...

    Let me know what ya think, people.
     
  7. Update:

    Things seem to be stayin the same. I haven't been able to do jack shit as an illness has kept me wiped out for the past 4-5 days or so.

    Plants seem to be holding, growing a bit, spotting a bit, etc.

    I have a couple questions:

    Instead of the PVC elbow/fan solution to chilling my reservoir, what if I used ducting instead? I have ducting already...and I could have it exhaust outside of the box... As far as attaching it I was thinking I could just cut the hole a little smaller than the ducting and then shove it through...

    Just a thought.


    Also, the roots that are underwater appear to be nice and white. It's only the roots between the net pots and the water that are brown. If it's the water temperature why is that?



    Anyhow, still waiting on my good meter to come back from Hanna. I'm keeping the PH stable. Temperature ranges between 77-82F. RH = 35.

    This week I WILL be dumping the res, cleaning it out, soaking the roots in some H202, adding fresh water, finding a way to cool the reservoir, making a new reservoir, building my flowering cab, taking clones off my friend's plants, and subverting the dominant paradigm.



    PICS:

    Group:

    100_6039 (Large).JPG

    Plant 1 side view:

    100_6040 (Large).JPG

    Plant 1 top view:

    100_6041 (Large).JPG

    Plant 2 side view:

    100_6042 (Large).JPG

    Plant 2 top view:

    100_6043 (Large).JPG



    As always, any comments/advice/suggestions are appreciated. :smoking:
     
  8. #88 Unclenugs, Mar 16, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 16, 2009
    hey man! lookin' good!

    sounds like quite a week you've got ahead of you, haha. Hope you're feeling better now.

    When I started growing with DWC, I was really concerned with my water temps, and tried everything short of breaking down and buying a chiller, then I started reading more about why high temps were bad. High rez temps cause a reduction in the amount of oxygen in the water, and this in turn, creates a breeding ground for bacteria.

    low oxygen and bacteria is bad, as you know, so you can either combat this with colder water, or you can raise your oxygen concentration. this was the answer for me, I went out and bought the GH air pump, with a couple of airstones per bucket, and I haven't had any problems with my water that was often 80+ degrees. My temps are under control now though, but thats all due to better light ventilation. Just way over-do it with the bubbles, I think more oxygen is the cheapest and easiest way to improve any grow.

    Now, I'm not saying that this will definitely work for you, but if you cant control your rez temps, more bubbles will help a lot. I've been working on ways of increasing oxygen in my own setup by reducing the amount of water that the plants sit in.

    *edit*

    ok, so of course the one page of your thread that I didn't read, you already talked about your airstone situation, but i'd say, if you have 2x 4-outlet air pumps, I'd invest in 8 brand new, big air stones, and run em' all. Cant hurt. The pump only costs a few bucks in electricity.
     
  9. Is your water level pretty much touching the bottom of your netpot? It should be, Airgaps are bad.

    Maybe the browning/rotting roots are causing the Ph drop. Your res Ph should be raising/Ppm lowering after you top off your res to max with fresh Ro. If it's slowly dropping , you can pretty much gaurentee it's the roots . No way 250 Ppm would cause something like that.
     
  10. Dude do whatever you can do get the hot air in your res out, ducting should work fine.
     
  11. I'm gonna respectfully disagree with you on this one Hypeshot. I've had the water level drop 8-9 inches from the bottom of the netpots without any adverse effects... In fact, once the roots have dropped out the bottom of the pots, my water level is never closer than 2 inches from the bottom of the netpots for the rest of the grow.
     
  12. #92 Unclenugs, Mar 16, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 16, 2009


    I keep my mothers in Bubble buckes, and of course, being a stoner, I always forget to add water to their rez. My plants don't show any adverse affects until the bucket is bone dry. this has happend about 3 times in the year or so i've had the moms. now, I'm not saying you should ever let your buckets empty all the way, but as long as 10% of the roots are in water, the plant should live.

    what I have come to realize in my new setup that tops off my buckets, is that if you completely submerge the root system, it will encourage more root growth from the base of the stem, making even more tap roots. So, Instead of just extending the long taproots that drop from the net pot originally, you make more brand new roots, as well as extending the old ones.

    So, what I'm saying is that roots will be fine if there is an air gap, but I suggest a higher water level, based on my own experiences. But by all means, do what works for you!
     
  13. I have read tons of grow journals and books, and watched numerous vids on growing, however I have had very little "hands on" experience with growing mary jane. I am a biology major and feel like I have a pretty good handle on plants and their needs.

    I thought I'd lend you my 2 cents, you can cash it in or throw it out, it's up to you...

    First off you need to clean up those roots, I suggest a soak in some Hydrogen Peroxide, and flush for a couple days, meanwhile clean the ever living hell out of your system (but you already planned that...)

    Second, clean up your leaf situation. Damaged leaves only draw from the plant, as it will try to repair itself. Trim any dead or non-contributing leaf matter from your babies!

    check out http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688&page=1&pp=15 it's a pretty good plant abuse guide

    I think you have the symptoms of couple nutrient deficiencies from what I saw in the pictures... This is most likely attributed to your ph levels fluctuation and/or res temperature.

    Phosphorus- aids in root growth, influences the vigor of the plant, important in flowering as well as germination.

    Deficiency: The edges of the leaves can be brownish and work its way inwards causing the part of the leaves to curl up. An overall dark green color with a purple, red, or blue tint to the fan leaves is sign of deficiency. Parts affected are: Older Leaves, Whole plant, Petioles.

    Calcium- helps with the support structure of the plant; cell walls, stems, stalks, and branches, as well as contributing to root growth, mostly the newer root hairs. Calcium also aids in the uptake of K in the plants roots.
    Deficiency: Leaf tips may turn yellow/brown color happening in spots and are often surrounded by a sharp brown outlined edge. This is followed by death of the leaf tips, and they may curl back. Growth of the plant is stunted. The plant can show a weakness in the stems and branches. May result in an under developed root system that can lead to bacteria problems with roots dieing off. Having slow plant transpiration rates can aggravate the uptake of calcium. The parts affected by a calcium deficiency are the roots, stem or petiole, and leaves.

    Before you do anything with your nutes, check your water temp and pH levels, then adjust accordingly. Adjust your pH slowly, someone said something about diluting it in distilled water... that sounds like very good advice. You could chase your ass all over town trying to settle your ph where you want it to be.

    Then add your nutes, I'd be gentle 200ppm sounds about as high as I would take it for now. Don't stress your babies!

    Check ph again and adjust accordingly.

    Why are you using RO water? What beneifits does it offer you?
    No offense, but it seems you are unfamiliar with it and I think you should chill out on getting fancy with your grow until you have more experience? I'd look into some plain old spring water or distilled if you want it to be pure... and it's probably more accessable.

    Anyway, that's my rant. I hope I didn't make too much of a fool out of myself. Good luck bro, I'm with 'ya.
    :)



     
  14. #94 smoove, Mar 17, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2009
    You say that like it's a bad thing. Why not use RO water.
    It's very clean of impurities and has a low mineral content which allows you control your nutrient ratios very well.
    ...But feel free to dish out advice... without said experience :p
    Spring water is not "pure." Depending on the source location the water could have a very high mineral content (much higher than RO water.) And technically speaking, even laboratory grade water is not really "pure" ...but as far as growing is concerned... Distilled and RO water are as clean as it gets. RO water does contain some trace minerals but is still considered to be "purified water."
    RO water is just as, if not more accessible to most people. If water says "purified" and not "distilled" or "natural spring water"... then it's RO water. Big brand named waters like Aquafina, Dasani, etc...are just RO water. That big water dispenser outside the grocery store that sells 5 gallons for $1... is RO water... and not to mention the RO water you can make yourself at home with one of the many units available. (which I use and recommend.)

    When you're going through 15 gallons of water or more per week... Tap or RO water just make the most sense. If you have really good tap water where you live... you're lucky... you can use it. Otherwise RO is most likely to be your best choice.
     
  15. Thanks for stoppin in, Unclenugz.

    That's good to know about more oxygen in the water being able to reduce the negative effects of high reservoir temps. However, I think I'm going to try the "vent the reservoir" method to get the temperature down before I go out and buy another air pump, air stones, etc. I already have the things necessary to try venting.

    That GH pump is actually the one I'm using in the res. And the 2nd air pump is for my other reservoir. I'm going to take clones off these two then have 2 in flowering and 2 in vegging simultaneously, so I'll need the pump for that.

    Appreciate the advice/suggestions, mang.

    Sup Hype. :wave:

    Yeah, the water level was a few inches below the net pots. The fact that the roots are only brown between the water and the pots makes me think that maybe the hot air in the res is more harmful to the roots than the water? Dunno. I'm just trying to figure out why the roots in the water are nice and white but the roots in the air gap are tan/brown...

    So I raised the level to where it's just below the pots. Can't see how that can hurt. As to the PH, it seems to be holding alright recently. I guess I'll just have to see how it goes after dumping and everything.

    Thanks for showin up man.

    I'll see how it goes today, Jim. The insulated ducting I have is a lot bigger than I thought...

    WB smoove.

    I agree that you're not supposed to have any detrimental effects from a low water level, but I'm just confused as to why my roots are brown in the gap, but white underwater. Is it possible that the air trapped in the res is too hot/humid and causing it?

    HellifIknow lol.

    Thanks for stoppin in.


    I feel ya. I know that the roots were browning with the airgap, so I might as well see if raising the water level helps.

    And I appreciate this kind of dialogue between growers. Differing opinions being presented help us all get the most information possible and hopefully causes us all to become better growers...and stuff. haha :smoking:

    Waddup htc. Thanks for stoppin in.

    Yup, doing the h202 soak and cleaning out my reservoir is on the list of things to do today. However, I don't think it's particularly necessary to clean out the res as much as you guys think.

    Why, you ask? Well, if I didn't have a UV Sterilizer in there I'd agree that I need to clean the hell out of everything. I would be trying to cleanse the system of bacteria, etc. However, there shouldn't even be any active bacteria in the reservoir at this point. The sterilizer renders any bacteria inactive/inert that's in the res, so I'd be surprised if there's too much of a need for a serious cleaning. (I will clean it out tho)

    Perhaps the Sterilizer has something to do with the roots being white in the water but brown in the air? Maybe bacteria can somehow stay on the roots in the airgap that would otherwise get killed in the water because the Sterilizer works on the water....? Or something? Hell, I'm just throwing shit out there lol. :D

    That's probably a good call on the leaf situation. I'll trim the dead ones off when I get to work here in a bit.

    As far as possible deficiencies go: I've read that IC Mag thread and the other 3-4 plant abuse/sickness guides we have here in the sick plants forum. I came to the conclusion that deficiencies are apparently beyond my level of expertise to diagnose. Every time I have a problem I consult those guides and can never find anything that seems to parallel my plants or situation.

    So, again, hellifiknow. Right now I think the important thing is to get the water temperature down and the PH stable. Then I'll worry about the PPM, nutes, and possible deficiencies.

    As to the RO water, it's not really getting fancy by any means. I bought a RO water system because the tap water where I live is horrible, so it comes out of a spigot underneath my sink. This makes it the most accessible pure water source for me.

    Thanks for stoppin in.





    Well said, smoove.
     
  16. Here's a quick pic update before I get to work on my shit.

    I got over to my friend's house last night.

    His girls are blowin up and are healthy as fuck:

    100_6045 (Large).JPG

    I found a beetle-lookin bug on one of his leaves. It doesn't look like anything I've seen in the plant abuse/sickness guides, but I want to make sure it's nothing to worry about. It kind of looks like a ladybug, but it's not...

    bug.JPG

    I topped them while I was there, and we plan on switching to 12/12 in 3-5 days or so.

    The Aurora B have already got the sweet skunky smell to 'em and the HG smells like cat piss.



    And here's what mine look like today:

    100_6048 (Large).JPG

    100_6049 (Large).JPG

    100_6050 (Large).JPG

    I will update once I get some work done.

    P-p-peace. :smoking:
     
  17. Sorry about the confusion, this is the first time I've come across RO water. It sounded like it caused alot of problems in the beginning with ph and such...

    As for being fancy, when I realized that RO stood for Reverse Osmosis... it just sounded very technical. I could understand where you're coming from and I also have crappy tap water... now I have to come up with a solution before I start my own grow!

    "...But feel free to dish out advice... without said experience :p"
    I was just going by what I've read.

    Did I overstep my bounds? Was I wrong giving information based on what I've read, rather than what I've experienced?

    I'd be willing to bet that there are many teachers out there giving instruction on things that they have knowledge of but lack the experience themselves.
     
  18. hey darth hows it been man? good to see the girls are still growing strong. is te spotting still crawling up or has it stopped yet. either way they still look good as fuck man. and its nice to here that your seed( aka friend ) has sprouted into a nice green plant lol. alright man peace
     

  19. I think it's slowed down, but we'll see how it goes after I get the water temps down.

    My friend has 3 plants goin: 2 Aurora Borealis, and 1 Himalayan Gold fem. I get half the yield so I'm hoping it comes out alright.


    No big deal, man. Thanks for stoppin in.




    I have to ask this again: Does anyone know what that bug was in the pic I posted earlier?!!?!? I just found one on one of my plants. It looks like the same bug?
     
  20. It might be a ladybug. They can be white. Sort of hard to tell though. If you find leaf damage you know you have a problem though, and that it's not a ladybug!
     

Share This Page