Replacement for Crab Meal/Oyster Shell Flour?

Discussion in 'Growing Organic Marijuana' started by klauskleber, Sep 23, 2017.

  1. Hey guys, in my region (europe) i reaaallllly cant find any crab meal at all. Is there anything I can replace it with? I find Sepia Shell but it would be difficult to get. ? Same goes for Oyster Shell Flour. I find Horn Shavings .. ( Made out of horse's hoof) .. Will they help? Or stuff like chicken manure/horse manure maybe? Damn its really difficult :D

    Thanks guys!
     
  2. Biobizz

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  3. Agricultural lime or dolomite will provide the carbonates necessary to buffer soil acidity. Malted barley powder will provide the chitinase that is normally stimulated by the chitin contained in the crabshell meal. MBP can be sourced from any home brew store. Ask for 2-row or 6-row. You want malted barley made for pilsner's, not dark beers.
     
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  4. As labeled for sale as a fertilizer crab meal offers N, P, Ca and Mg. OSF is labeled for Ca in the carbonate form. N and P are fairly easy elements to source so find a substitute for them. Gypsum can supply both Ca and Su. Mg can be supplied by epsom salts. Ag lime can provide both Ca and Mg but also has a pH implication. Composted manures might supply all the benefits of both crab meal and OSF - arguably no doubt.

    Neither crab meal nor OSF are absolute requirements.
     
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  5. I have no experience with this, but I remember folks across the pond talking about an amendment called "hoof and horn". This may be worth looking for in your area.
    cheers
    os
     
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  6. Thanks so much to all of you! I did really learn a lot the last few weeks and I love this forum and the information available here. I feel like growing organic really brought me more in touch with myself over the last month. Im really hyped for this process and almost done getting all the ingredients and planning :)
    That being said I cant find any Coconut powder either. Is there any replacement for that?

    much love!
     
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  7. AFAIK you can also used powdered eggshells as a lime amendment. check your local bakery. most likely they will be happy to save you some.
     
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  8. Egg shells can be used for Ca but it's a long haul to get there unless composted completely or pulverized to a micron size. I've tried the egg shell-vinegar extract also...nah. IME anyway.
     
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  9. For me it's always nice to communicate with growers on a different continent. @Sc00byD00bie certainly has had to adopt his own protocols as most of us have but it does appear some countries have their challenges sourcing what N. America considers ubiquitous.

    Great reading in the stickies. Think substitution when looking at the 'basic 16 elements' if you cant find a certain something. Start a simple compost project (even in an apt) and a worm bin if you cant source EWC. You'll be golden in fields of green budZ.

    Happy Highs :smoking-hookah:
     
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  10. i dry mine in the oven and then grind them in a spice attchement of my immersion blender. comes out as fine grit but there is also lots of dust. i haven't actually tested it buffering capacity tho, but i could perhaps mix it with vinegar and compare PH with similar mix i make with Oyster flower?
     
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  11. From what I've read egg shells have a greater impact on soil pH over the longer haul >18 months versus lime but in either case egg shells do in fact raise soil pH.

    The egg shell vinegar extract is an old formula for extracting the Ca from egg shells using vinegar. It's darn near impossible to determine the Ca content of the final mixture so it's kind of a risky way of trying to supply Ca IME. Fun but meh....

    I think you're right on pulverizing the shells. If you've left the membranes in you're also getting the added benefit of enzymes, amino acids, proteins, and other goodies.
     
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  12. I do believe that you can replace the enzymes contained within coconut powder/water with a sprouted seed tea made with corn, or most any organic seed for that matter. Kind of a pain in the ass if you ask me, but many growers swear by the results and prefer the SST's to powders. Have you tried Amazon? You want dried coconut water, not milk.

    SST - Sprouted Seed Tea

    https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=coconut+powder
     
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  13. #13 klauskleber, Sep 24, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2017
    Hey,
    It's been a really fun journey learning about composting, local compost laws, the soil food web. I had like a little manic episode the last week researching all the ingredients etc. It kinda came all together and the first booke i picked up was "one straw revolution" where Fukuoka speaks that gardening is a spiritual journey and reflect's the state of the gardner and i can really relate to that.

    Anyway. I found a source for local EWC (they also offer tea - it should be really good) and I can pick up some free compost from our city's waste management (? not sure on the translation here, but our citie's bio garbage is collected, they compost it and people can pick it up for free - it's supposed to be top quality) and local activated biochar. Gonna pick up some pumice and peat moss ( just a light mix from a local supplier, should be like 80% peat) this weak.
    My plan is now to get a "pre-mix" from an organic brand (biobizz) for the amendments and rockdusts etc. and also use their aloe vera and fulvic acids for now (wanna replace the aloe and fulvic sooner or later).
    My amazon cart is filled with neem, kelp, malted barley... and turmeric for golden milk lol. Got corn also.
    Ahh.. and for now i might just go with coconut water (like 15$ per 4l) and sst? I cant find any coconut powder still.
    And when I use this premix - do i still put in malted barley ? no neem and kelp im sure but malted barley?
    You guys can check out the products here if you are interested (Products - Biobizz)
    Yeah that's how far I got. I guess the only thing missing might be Silica ( I might need to check out a local grow store for that :/).. and actual worms!? (longterm maybe some aloe plants and a worm bin.. :D)

    Anyway! That's it. Coming week I need to pick up a lot of stuff!
    Much love

    edit: just found out good compost needs to sit for 2-3 years? damn i think the one in my city only needs to sit for 10 weeks i think
     
  14. @klauskleber re: compost. There's a couple of fool proof ways of checking compost to ensure it's safe to use. One, have it laboratory tested. Two, mix your compost with some SPM or your soil mix sans nutrients. Get some fast germinating vegetable seeds (~7 days) such as radishes or some fast germinating flower seeds - either one is fine - and try to get them to pop. If they do successfully and grow into a healthy little plant the compost is good. Anything less than a healthy seedling then the chances are extremely high that the compost is not "finished" and not ready for use. Either test (one or two) is pretty fool proof. Most gardeners opt for option two.

    Compost will either help tremendously or it will screw the pooch. Dont use compost that hasnt been tested or you're taking a big risk with your expensive cannabis seeds. IMO & IME anyway.
     
  15. #15 klauskleber, Sep 25, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2017
    Ahh! this compost is actually tested like 10+ times a year since its made officially by our city's waste management service. I think it should be good! it has the european compost quality seal and also the countrie's compost laws highest rating ..and so on :D Im slowly getting there :>
     
  16. Guys! I have another question because im still not sure if I'll use a pre-mix or look for all the amendments by myself. Im not sure if this Pre-Mix contains the right amounts of rock dusts.. it feels weird cause they recommend using it after every cycle (but then again they dont recommend notill and say one should throw away the soil after 9 months... ... may be too much rock dust in the soil at that point)

    1) Lets say the Pre-Mix contains not enough gypsum or basalt.. Will this regulate over time with feeding? I wouldnt mind if the soil takes a bit to get going.. Could i water in gypsum/basalt later if needed (and will I even be able to see it if the soil would be lacking it?)
    2) I found some horn/bone meal (NPK 682) + garden lime or calcium carbonat dog supplement (36% calcium, no phosphor) + i can get horse and cow manure and epsom salt if needed. Which of those should I combine to replace oyster shell and crab meal?
    3) I read somewhere that oyster shell is recommended over lime? what's bad about lime and should i just take the dog supplement instead? I might check pet supply stores for some sort of oyster or sea shells

    Thank you guys very much!
    Much love
     
  17. there would be two reasons for them saying that:
    A) their soil is low quality and wont hold up for long
    B) They just want you to buy more

    most likely its
    C) A+B are correct.

    use whatever lime you can get easily, just remember you want flour or find dust consistency or it wont do its job
     
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