Removing the Confederate Flag

Discussion in 'Pandora's Box' started by Vicious, Jun 23, 2015.



  1. Cultural appropriation happens every day, what's so special about that particular culture?



     
  2. That the comparison is actually relevant. They are culturally and politically appropriate to compare. :smoke:

     
  3. #23 Vicious, Jun 23, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2015
    The Swastika and CF? I fail to see how National Socialism and Confederacy are comparable politically, let alone culturally.


    Unless everybody here thinks that because somee backwards white supremacist using them mean they're the same and mean the same to everyone.

     
  4. It is, and was very much was, ingrained in the same manner.
    :smoke:
     
  5. #25 LoveisKind, Jun 23, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2015
    These symbols both harassed, killed, and ruined a lot of families. Is that not enough to understand that they are both shitty and don't promote peace? Do you think anyone wants to be reminded of these things? How about if your family was killed by Nazi's or your family members was killed by a person who hated your race who uses a flag that over time symbolized racial hatred? I am 100% sure your answer is to not support such a thing/justify it to remain.
     
  6. Care to break it down for me?
     
  7. Most people I've met that proudly display the CF (not many) also have racist views. I've never been a fan but it seems so irrelevant to the current issue.

    Doing something about mental illness, prescription drugs, and coming to a compromise on gun control should be the real issues. Not some symbolic removing of a flag IMO, even though it's the right thing to do.
     
  8. #28 Vicious, Jun 23, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2015
    I understand the Nazi bit. I disagree about the CF bit. I'm aware racist people have used its symbol but I don't think it makes the symbol racist. Although the swastika is now. I don't care if it upsets a couple people, it's an attack on Southern culture which I already said isn't inherently racist. Making it out to be is an attack on that culture. It's already clearly polarized that Southern culture is a racist culture.


    By your logic we should change the American flag too because it hurts the sensibility of Native Americans that were brought pain under it.

     
  9. Why do you think the CF should stay? What else do you think it signifies? What does it mean to the good Southerners?


    I'm assuming here that you do want it to stay.

     
  10. #30 LoveisKind, Jun 23, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2015
    Ha, it only affected a "couple of people"? That's delusional that you said that right there and the U.S. flag affected every single person that wasn't white. Point blank. Obviously, all of us can't go back where we came from and Native Americans can't reclaim their land. We are living in the present with millions of people from diverse cultures. Leaving the Confederate flag there doesn't reign true to the diversity that the U.S. has achieved in the present. The majority of people in my state are honestly against keeping it there due to the millions of lives that it has affected in it's history.
     
  11. The flag represents a "culture" that tried to break away from the Union due to states' rights. A major component of those state rights was the right to own slaves. I'm sorry but I just can't see how someone can completely ignore that correlation.


    Of course a symbol in itself can not be inherently racist, but it can come to represent racist ideals. It doesn't help that most of the people one will see bearing the flag also hold these beliefs, one being a racist organization in itself.


    Bottom line is that times are different and that symbol offends many people today and rightfully so. If removing it can help ease division and uneasiness then why not just do it? We're clutching on to a dark past that should be left to history, not brandish in our faces like some sort of wonderful time. Forget the racism, that war killed the most Americans ever in history.
     
  12. I think it signifies Southern culture and that southern culture isn't racist. The south actually has a culture that extends far past historical racism. It doesn't need changed because some racists use it as a banner.


    What I see is "The confederates were the bad guys because they believed in slavery! The Northern good guys wanted to free the slaves immediately and give them all paying jobs!".
     
  13. I collect flags as a hobby, have been doing so for quite a while. That being said, they're still just pieces of cloth. They have no ability to think or feel any certain way. They only represent whichever meaning people ascribe to them. And people/times change. The flag is a battle flag, it's not even the actual flag of the Confederate States of America. I can see both sides of the argument; it is a symbol for Southern pride and heritage, and it has also been a symbol to commit heinous acts of violence in the past. In present times, it's been more innocuous than not.


    Anyone that's from South Carolina will know there's tributes and homages to the Confederacy all over. There's parks with monuments to the Confederate Defenders of Charleston. There's the slave market downtown, where slaves were traded back then, and is still a place where black women weave baskets and other things like their ancestors did. There are museums about the slave trade. The flag is really just an aside to everything else about the South's Confederate past.


    This is just political fodder for the media and politicians to further their own shit. The shooter was wearing a South African flag, not even a Confederate Flag.


    Let South Carolinians decide how to move forward, it's their decision.


    If you're feelings get hurt over a piece of cloth, don't go to Charleston, it would be too much for your sensibilities.
     
  14. Well needed voice of reason.


    The confederate flag is about being proud of where you're from. It's home. It's not perfect, it's got problems, but it's home and you aren't going to let some outsiders tell you how to live your life. It's about standing up for yourself no matter how futile the gesture is. The south is very well aware that it lost the war, but southerners are still proud of where they came from and celebrate their history and heritage regardless of how politically incorrect it's deemed.


    You've got to know where you're from to know where you're going. Truth be told I think the reaction in Charleston after the shooting is a massive statement of southern culture. If that shooting had happened anywhere else north of the Mason-Dixon line or west of the Mississippi you'd bet your ass half the city would be up in flames with rioters.


    It doesn't matter if you're black or white, and I've seen many black people fly the flag too, it's about being a good southerner and that means being a good neighbor and a decent person. I personally don't own a confederate flag, but I'll defend the right for people to have them and wave them around all they want.


    It's about knowing where your from, and the confederate flag is the biggest symbol of that. Attacking the flag is attacking a four hundred year old culture that's been abused enough by outsiders.

     
  15. #35 LoveisKind, Jun 23, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2015
    The shooter actually has pictures with the Confederate flag and also a picture of him with his car with a plate of Confederacy flags. So.... yea.
     
  16. Anyway, it is really exhausting repeating myself. The flag is going to come down and that is that. Time to move on.
     
  17. If the Confederate flag is a symbol of hate because of slavery, why isn't the American flag a symbol of hate because of the Native American genocide. The US has spilled a lot more blood than the Confederacy ever did.
     
  18. #38 forty winks, Jun 23, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2015
    That says it all, really. After all, the shooter made concrete what the Apartheid flag ultimately symbolized - separateness, or failing that, death to the other. In that act, he did everything that's bad about the CF. And that has nothing to do with delicate sensibilities.
     
  19. Moving on is hard ...

     
  20. Okay, I only saw the one picture. So I will retract that particular statement.




     

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