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Reloaded discussion

Discussion in 'General' started by InferiorWang, May 17, 2003.

  1. I thought I'd start a thread for those who have seen Reloaded and want to talk about it. If you haven't seen it and don't want anything spoiled go back now.

    Ok, now we can get to the point. What did everyone make of the ending? I have a theory that I'll type out later but I want to see if anyone else has put it together, too. What happened when Neo stopped when the squiddie was coming at him? Did Neo make the same choice as his predecessors? That was a little disagreement no one was absolutley sure about in our group. He didn't have the same reacton as his predecessors but did he make the same choice? This has a minor affect on my theory and guides the end of it but my theory can work either way. One way the prophecy is fulfilled and they don't know it yet, the other way it isnt. So what do y'all think of the end? Where do you think it's going?
  2. first off... the eye-candy was insane... just an overall intense movie that i enjoyed... lots and lots of questions to be answered though... a lot of possibilities still... ending was annoying but expected... oh well... only 6 months till the next one... what did you think about neo's gaining powers in the REAL world? not really sure what to make of it yet... obviously people would believe that it could be a matrix within the matrix... but i doubt it cuz it seems too obvious... Neo's conversation with the architect was pretty cool... and everything from the first one pretty much gets flipped all around... of course i wish i wasn't so damn high when i went to see it.. i probably could of caught a bit more... oh well.. im sure ill see it plenty of times before revolutions...

    did you see stay for the trailer?

    i didn't want to sit through 20 minutes of credits... jeeze! but i watched it at home...

    smith fighting neo in an empty matrix... lotsa possibilites... anyhoo... i will watch it again and see what i can come up with
  3. I saw it sober and at the end of it my mind was swamped with possibilities. I latched on to one and discussed/argued it with the girl riding with me. I typed it into notepad cuz it's kinda long and I'll paste it in here

    Ok, here's my theory. I think there are multpiple matrices built within matrices. There have been 6 (or was it 7 now) matrices to contain people. Each time there is a singularity, someone who can mold the matrix to his will. His whole life builds up until the point where he tries to destroy the matrix. Now Neo is given a choice, he can lose Trinity and choose 16 women and 7 men to repopulate Zion. I think there's a possibility that those 24 people are reinserted in a matrix within a matrix without their knowledge. They begin a new Zion in a new matrix that has a matrix with people trapped in it. They believe they are still in the real world. As Neo says in the movie, "The problem is choice." They subconciously choose to believe that the new matrix within a matrix is the real world. They make this choice because they believe there is only one level to the matrix. They have already woken up so the believe they cannot still be within a matrix. In one of the Animatrix films there is supposed to be something about a runner who becomes somewhat aware of the matrix. I haven't seen that one of the videos yet, but what I saw from the previews it looks like he is standing on the block getting ready to run. He is talking to himself and convincing himself he is faster than everyone else, thus making him able to bend the rules. There are some people in the crowd (maybe morpheus and trinity but I don't remember) who are sitting there worried saying quietly, "Don't wake up. Don't wake up." They are afraid that he will totally realize the reality of the matrix and wake up from the dream in front of all those people watching. I think that Neo may have realized that he was still in a Matrix when the squiddie is coming at him. He stops and tries to force his will on the matrix. He attempts to stop the squiddie the same way he stops bullets. It seems to somewhat succeed but he collapses and falls into a coma. I think he may have waken up to a level above. If what he was told was the matrix is the 6th matrix within the other matrices then what he was told the is the real world would be the 5th level and he was able to wake up to the 4th level. One apparent flaw in this part of my idea is when people wake up from the 6th level to the 5th level their body disappears from the 6th level. I think that it would be smart programming to make different things happen to the bodies on different levels when people wake up so that others don't attempt to do the same thing. If they witness someone waking from the 5th level in the same way that someone wakes from the 6th then they know something is wrong and will try to wake from the 5th level to the 4th level. However, if when someone wakes up their 5th level body is disconnected from their 4th level mind and the 5th level body falls into a coma it doesn't bring up as many questions for the people of the 5th level. I think I had more to this idea earlier, but I've been in and out of my room typing this into Notepad all day so I could copy and paste it to grasscity when done. What do y'all think of my theory?
  4. Oh I forgot about fulfilling the prophecy. Neo wakes to the 4th level and then may try to wake again and again until he reaches the real world. He can then join the real resistance and the real zion to fight the machines. Maybe it will be easier to destroy the matrix from the first level or maybe there is a computer that can be shut down from the real world that will shut down the matrix. Either way the matrix could be shut down thus robbing the machines of their energy supply and turning the war in favor of humans. This could still fulfill the prophecy but wouldnt be immediate as expected by morpheus.
  5. i wrote a SHIT LOAD here yesterday... then the system went offline so i lost everything... god damn it... i don't feel like typing all that shit again... maybe later or tomorrow... but not now.. im pissed... oh well
  6. That sucked when the system went down yesterday. This was the last thing I posted before it was gone and I was like "WTF! Did I hit on something?"
  7. after seeing the end heres my theory. Neo didnt make the choice all those before him made. thats why trinity kept dying in his dreams. it was the choice he was supposed to make. as to how he could stop the sentinals. i think it has something to do with when agent smith tried to morph into him, but couldnt and so a little bit of agents smiths power to control the matrix is now inside neo. so that even though he is outside the matrix, whatever he picked up through agent smith has givin him the power to sort of control the outside matrix.
  8. But wouldnt that also give the other guy power outside the matrix? The other guy is a copy of Smith in the real world, not just someone who may have gained a little something from him. It looks like he's in the same kind of coma.
  9. blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah... i can't find the motivation to type...

    from the beginning... hmm... let's see

    i hear people talking about X2 being better than the Matrix Reloaded... that is pretty hillarious... X2 was BARELY better than the first X-men... and the first one was VERY VERY bad... honestly.. after seeing the matrix reloaded twice i find it superior to the original (just didn't have the shock effect the first one did though)...

    ok... so now that is outta the way

    my personal reasoning for debunking the matrix within the matrix idea (otherwise known as the 13th floor scenario) is the fact that it seems blatantly obvious... after neo uses powers in the REAL world that is the conclusion everyone drew... now i am doubting the brothers would do this.. leave it that obvious

    now neo never actually dreams of trininity's death... only her falling and being shot... therefore i don't really believe in the destiny theory... i don't really believe anything in the movie is pre-determined..

    im struggling with the idea that the architect could be in fact human or machine... it is too tough to tell at this point... and i believe his mentioning of the female in his conversation was about monica(mind is going blank as to what her character's name is)

    neo and smith fighting in Revolutions... personally i believe that they could easily be fighting in their subconcious... no matrix... but on a completely different level... both still stuck in a coma... however... i am doubting it though

    i also think that neo and smith could be the two determining factors in destroying the matrix and setting everyone free... i think smith may actually turn out to side with neo and the other humans

    monica belluci... i think she is going to be the KEY in revolutions... and could possibly depend almost entirely on her... i am betting she is responsible for her husband's downfall as well... and i think she will get aid from the virus progs (twins)

    back to reloaded... what did you think about the tribal setting in Xion? (im choosing not to use the religious spelling)

    there is so much philisophical mumbo-jumbo in this flick it will make your head spin... that may be a downfall by some accounts, but i dont really see it that way... i found it positive that i was questioning everything and developing my own conclusions... it is definitely not laid out for you... and if anyone thought it was, most likely you are completely off

    but.. the whole idea of Revolutions, a repeated sequence of events designed to sustain the very exsistance of both the machines and humans is beyond genious.. this is why the oracle knows so much, this is why morpheus knows of the "prophecy"this is why the machines know where Xion is.. according to reloaded it has all happen before, 6 times..

    i can see xion as a "back-up" .. as mentioned in the original matrix... crops of humans were lost and rejected the matrix.. it is possible that the machines keep xion as a backup.. that is how they know where xion is and when xion reaches a certain level it is destroyed and re-built... xion could simply be an emergency supply

    then there is the animatrix in which a small child extracts himself from the matrix... that raises many more possibilities

    neo could also possibly be a machine himself... seems logical.. he could simply be perfect... a program designed to believe it is human

    then there is The Pygmalion Effect... which i really dont want to explain.. but basically "a false definition of the situation evokes a new behavior which makes the original false conception come true".. once an expectation is set, humans tend to act in ways that would align with that expectation... the effect is that often that the expectation, no matter how right or wrong, comes true...

    ie... neo starts believing he is the one, thus eventually becomes the one.. regardless of the fact the prophecy is false

    and last but not least... THERE IS NO REAL WORLD AT ALL!

    jesus! i need to stop typing... i have hundreds of ideas though... sad... possibly.. entertaining though

    ok.. im leaving now... enjoy
  10. man, that was a really good post... some good ideas too. i have the DVD rip of it now so i can watch it again and again. ill tell you what i think agter the 20th time i see it :)
  11. I thought it was pretty obvious, too, but many of my friends (smart people who took AP classes and graduated with honors) didn't figure that much out. They didn't even come close. They had no idea where it was going and no ideas of their own which kinda suprised me considering we have all been trained thru AP english to analyze stuff like this.
    Neo says he never sees her die but what about the first scene of the movie? Trinity actually hits the car thus indicating her death. He denies that fact that he saw b/c it hurts but that doesn't change the fact that he saw it. He refuses to believe it and will try to change it at all costs.
    You mean Monica Belucci? Persephone? I think she's the one, too. Neo guesses that the Oracle was the one and the Architect shows disgust which could be at the idea that the Oracle did it or the fact that she's an Oracle. I think that the Architect is a seperate artificial intelligence that operates outside the Matrix. A human wouldn't cooperate and program the matrix and guide Neo's life, so a machine would make sense.
    Just so it's said, the whole thing hasn't happened 6 times. The paradise matrix and the hell matrix both failed. At most, this would be the 4th time it was repeated.
    I had that thought, too. He just doesn't know he's a program. The programmers know how he will react to some things which makes it easier for them to lead him to do things which goes back to causality.
  12. i was just thinking about this and decided to post it... i can't really remember it too well... but when the oracle and neo are having their conversation on the park bench the oracle asks neo if he wants a piece of candy... it looks like a red pill... hmm... im not sure... does he eat it? i can't remember... i am pretty sure he takes it... but i can't remember what he did with it... anyways... just another idea i thought i would throw out there

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