I like this part.... Its funny Galileo was bad ass, he was threatened by the church to stop spouting "heresy" then stuck it to them By the way maybe some of you guys should actually read a philosophy book. Many of the arguments people are making have been made before. Especially the "Problem of suffering" one...
I realize the reason you were pointing them out, I was merely observing the fact that you did so. If you do not understand how free will would pertain to the atrocities committed by drug trafficking then I don't think there's as much hope for you as I thought there might be... Conclusion: You chose not to reply to what I've said because you are either afraid of the possibility that your views might be expanded (don't worry, many people are), or you've run out of ways to debunk my beliefs. Or, as you said, it might just be laziness. I don't claim to know which it is, merely stating possibilities.
Actually I am an independent as far as the political parties go, It was not my intention to "judge" religions only point out some facts. And it was only aimed at the Catholic Church which sanctioned those actions i mentioned, and is only 1 sect out of many Christians. I am not ignorant I would bet less than 1% of Muslims supported 911 there are about a billion muslims right now. Of course everyone knows politicians defect quite often, and there is not "black and white" when it comes to most peoples standpoints. I like how you mention yourself lol. The thing about picking on atheists i dont really understand because i didnt presume anyone would pick on atheists or anyone else for that matter lol. Please dont presume to know my thoughts.
Oh that last line wasn't aimed directly at you lol, I just meant that people in general, after reading the first line, would naturally assume the entire thing would be aimed solely at atheists (like how aero just quoted that part). I didn't mean that to be a jab at you man, not at all Oh and just fyi I totally admit that there are falsities in the bible, and I don't deny anything Proven by science. Just remember, just because it isn't proven yet doesn't mean it won't be in the future. Just because people believe in something that isn't proven yet doesn't make them "loonies" (just like Galileo was)
I've been on this forum for five years. I can guarantee you that more than half my 2,000 posts on this forum is from debating religion in the Spirituality and Philosophy section. I can also assure you, I'm not afraid that my views might be expanded, and I can definitely assure you that I'm not out of ways to debunk your belief (I don't even know what belief you are supporting, that's another reason this debate is pointless. You say you aren't Christian but you still say that Christianity should be treated with respect and in high regard? Is that what you're going for? You should try to make your position more clear). Also, in regard to your free will comment. It DOES NOT matter if god lets humans have free will, fact of the matter is the god is still OMNISCIENT and OMNIPOTENT, which means he has full control and knowledge over the matter, whatever it may be. You don't seem to understand that. Should we take a trip to dictionary.com again? I'm going to let you be, you seem to have other people's posts to reply to... not many people agree with you.
You are going off the basis of Mans definition of god and god exists. It says in the bible that man is flawed and fallible. So mans definition could also be fallible. How can you say something is all powerful and all knowing when you cant prove its existence in the first place. By the way dictionary.com is not as reputable was websters.
How do we have free will if God is omniscient? He must know the exact course my life will take down to the last detail, and if he does then I don't really have a choice at all. Neither would God for that matter because he must also know his own future and thus be bound to those outcomes as well. Omniscience is a ridiculous concept. You say you don't understand God's reasoning in allowing for events to play out as they do. If that is the case, how can you be so sure that he is even good or moral to begin with? Galileo's faith in his hypothesis was based on repeated empirical observation, not superstition. And let's not forget it was religious folk trying to keep Galileo quiet about his ideas. Whenever people try to defend religion like this I can't help but think of the No true Scotsman fallacy. Any person who commits evil acts in the name of their faith wasn't a "true Christian" or some bullshit like that. Who are the real Christians? The one's campaigning to oppress homosexuals? Or the ones trying to teach creationism as actual science? Not to mention the fact that religious texts often advocate direct violence or oppression upon other people. What is a real Christian/Muslim/Jew anyway? Every religious text is so riddled with contradiction it is impossible to determine what the truth of the texts are. So who determines what a real Christian/Muslim/Jew would do? You? Or is the "no true christian" line only used as damage control when religion shows its true colors?
I can say god is all powerful and all knowing when arguing with Christians because they will agree with me.
Oh ok, i guess i didnt read that post carefully enough lol. I was under the impression that smokee was not christian
I know you meant that last part as an insult, but I'm going to take it as a compliment. Most people didn't agree with the radical/revolutionary thinkers of the past, until of course everyone else did. I completely understand the meaning of omniscience and omnipotence. What you don't seem to understand is that God could allow things to happen, even though he KNOWS all the consequences, because he endowed us with free will. Like I said before, who determines that things are "bad" or "good". Us, not god. I believe "God" has a purpose for everyone and a reason for everything that happens, even though sometimes (or maybe most of the time) we can't see or understand it. Has something good ever come about because of something that at the time it occured you thought was "bad"? I never said that Christianity should be held in high regard or respected, most of the people against religion were arguing about things asserted in the bible, so I decided I'd play "devil's advocate" (haha how ironic) and debate from what I believe to be a Christian perspective. I do however believe there is MUCH to learn not only from Christianity, but from many religions including Buddhism and Taoism. I guess if you wanted to limit my beliefs to a particular viewpoint, I'd just be a "Theist". I believe there to be a god/higher consciousness/creator in existence. I believe that all life is connected to that higher being and transatively to each other. I also believe it's entirely possible to deny/severe this bond if you choose to do so, which it appears to me you have, or are at least well on your way to doing. Anyway, I think it's too bad that you chose not to respond to the majority of the points I've made, especially since you've said that over half of your posts are pertaining to this subject. I would think someone that is truly inquisitive about his/her beliefs would jump at the chance to talk to others about them and get a fresh perspective.
Nearly every culture that has existed previously in the history of Earth has believed in a god of some sort. They were also less intelligent and less technological. The fact that you believe in superstitious bullshit just like they did does not make you revolutionary in any sense of the word.
Google defines omniscience as "all-knowing, infinitely wise". This is exactly what I believe God to be. Most people can't comprehend how an all knowing God and free will could co-exist. Personally, I believe that God knows the outcome of EVERY choice. Not only the choices we make, but also the choices we DON'T make. He knows the outcome of everything, whether we see it happen or not. IF you would like to debate from a Christian stand-point (which I often enjoy doing) this would help you to understand why God told "Adam" not to eat from the tree of knowledge. He KNEW what would happen if he ate (that man would fall) and he KNEW what would happen if he didn't (and he's the ONLY one that knows what would've happened). Again, I only sometimes argue from a Christian perspective because most people are familiar with Christianity and it often helps me to illustrate some of my personal beliefs that coincide with it. Who came up with good and evil? Who came up with morality and immorality? We did, Man. I believe all things to be equal. No one thing is "good" or "bad", it just is. I don't believe god is "good" or "bad", I just believe that he is. Let us also not forget that there were many religious folks who DID NOT try to keep Galileo quiet. This goes back to what I was saying before, judging all religions based on the actions of a FEW people who CLAIM to subscribe to those religions. If I had to guess, I would say less than 10% of people who claim to be Christians truly believe, significantly less actually. But alas, there will be hyocrites anywhere you look. The people I've come across who truly believe in a higher being have their own reasons for doing so, based not only on their own obersations, but also on feelings and logic. Usually the "true" believers you and I are both referring to are in the background, living peacefully, helping others. That's what I mean, you attempt to define all Christians based on stereotypes. That's like saying "so who are the REAL jews, the ones with big noses, or the ones who wear a yamaka all the time?" A very narrow-minded view. People bring up that so often because it's TRUE. Are you saying you don't acknowledge the fact that there are differences amongst people in certain religions? It's just like I previously stated, do you believe ALL muslims were behind the terrorist acts of 911? Of course not. Like I've said before, religions (and therefore their texts as well) are not perfect. Many of them have been used to manipulate the masses by the people in power. Like I've said multiple times I'm not a proponent of religion, but I do believe that religions have much to offer (and also much that should be avoided entirely). I would like to see these religious texts that directly advocate violence and oppression upon people though... Just out of curiosity. I would say a "real" Christian/Muslim/Jew would be one who fully and truly understands the tennants upon which those religions were based. Who is intelligent enough to sift through the inconsistencies and negativity contained within their particular belief system to uncover the underlying truths and message it contains. Like I've said twice before, is it wrong that the muslims denounce the radical muslims that bombed the twin towers? most muslims are against terrorism, so is it wrong for them to say that they don't agree with the actions of other people who claimto be muslim?