Religion, science and the future.

Discussion in 'Religion, Beliefs and Spirituality' started by Zylark, Apr 25, 2008.

  1. It pleases me to no end that religion is on the defensive. That religion is slowly but surely becoming marginalized. Any part of the world that can be said to be modern (that is, all of it except africa and the middle east) is moving away from superstition and towards reason. And those parts of the world that isn't modern, wish it was. If for no other reason, than the economic benefit free inquiry comes with.

    You can't have it both ways. That is the beauty of it. Economic growth is intimatly linked to expansion of knowledge. Expansion of knowledge, can only happen in a free society.

    And this is why religion is lagging behind. It do not encourage seeking knowledge, but dogma. As opposed to science, that is all about making progress in our understanding of life, the universe and everything.

    We see religion fighting with teeth and nails opposing this new (in a relative sense) fountain of wisdom and progress. Whining, lying and cheating their way into public discourse. And people are starting to see through the dishonesty, the whining, the special pleading. And distance themselves from it.

    When you have the shining beacon of honesty in the jurney of understanding that science give, why adhere to the darkness religion thrives in? Who want to live in darkness?

    Not any reasonable human being. And there is your answer to why the stronger religious conviction someone might hold, the more unreasonable they sound.

    But the world is generally moving towards reason. Though since there will always be the pathological irrationalists among us, religion will continue to exist in the fringes of society. That is quite ok. It is where it belongs. Keeping conspiracy theorists, new-ageists, astrologers and ghost-hunters company.
     
  2. I agree fully

    Religious dogma is nothing more then man made.

    And to fully back up your statement I give this quote:
    This clearly shows that the modern educated world has no need for religion, it is nothing more then a hindrance to our society, or values, and our long term development.

    I still can't believe some people choose to live their lives made by sexually repressed hypocritic men 2000 years ago.
     
  3. couldn't agree more
     
  4. And to counter all the "militant atheist" bullshit that morphyx spews implying that somehow "atheists" (You can just call me a common-sense-ist) Many always 'reason' that a life without god will lead to immorality. I do not agree and point to my own life as proof (I know you guys don't know me personally, but I think it's fair to say I have good morals. I'm sure the majority of you all do too.) Also it shows that many Catholics are huge assholes and immoral people, something I've learned first hand attending rigid Catholic schools for 12 years.

    And for evidence to what Zylark is saying, check this out:
    http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Percentage_of_atheists#Atheists_In_America
    I love the graduated increase, I'm sure as the birthdates increase in year, so does the disbelief in god. Even at a Catholic Highschool I'd say 20% of students don't believe. Ha!
     
  5. I am rather surprised why morphyx feels the need to perpetrate the word "Militant Atheism", he even went as far as to say in one post " I did a search on the forums for Militant Atheism, and I didn't find anything, I wonder why".

    Doesn't that ignorance just leap out right from the screen and slap you in the face?

    I'm just quite curious why morphyx feels the need to vilify atheism, My guess is it helps him feel better about his own religion, but hey, who knows.

    But why doesn't he ever vilify Agnosticism?

    Why not Militant Agnosticism? I mean, I'm agnostic and I'm more then willing to be militant about it :rolleyes:
     


  6. Its probably because the majority of "atheists" who vist the forums present themselves as the great bearers of truth, logic and wisdom.

    Logic is great in science, in fact it cant survive without it. However, we must often leave logic behind when we wish to examine the very heart of existence itself......because of the simple fact that there is nothing logical about it.

    Think about it...

    ...is any of this "logical"?
     
  7. Awesome, so religion operates outside the bounds of logic. I think we already established that in multiple other threads. I mean it's pretty obvious too, Christians killing others because they don't believe the same thing. A little ironic too when 'thou shal not kill'

    Yeah I think its pretty obvious that religion operates outside the bounds of logic and human reasoning. Because if it did, no one would believe in that shit.
     


  8. Youre limiting religion to the negative aspects humans have perpetuated in the name of it.


    Do you believe that science, logic and reason (if given the proper time) can essentially "crack the code" of existence itself?
     
  9. Why are you limiting it to cracking the code? What about improving our lifestyle through technology and the reasoning of mankind's rights?

    Why so absolute Jesus? Must you limit science and technology to just its aspects that humans use to try and understand their existence? Theres a lot more to science then cracking the code, open your eyes and look at everything science, logic, and reason has done for us.
     
  10. jesus, jesus.
     





  11. Because the title of the thread is "Religion, science and the future".


    Religion stems from the need to understand who we are, why we are, and where we came from....how we came to be.

    Of course science isnt limited to "cracking the code" of existence, but you'd have to be a little ignorant to deny the fact that its the ultimate goal. We're not just snapping shots of galaxies because the view is pretty or sending rovers to mars because we're bored....we're trying to find meaning.

    I bring up the point because I believe religion is mans way of trying to answer the questions that science, logic and reason will never be able to answer.

    So ill ask the question again:

    Do you believe that science (given the proper amount of time) can answer the ultimate question? Do you believe that science can figure "it" all out?
     
  12. JesusC is saying that science, although a fundamental understanding for any logical thinker, doesn't answer the question, "why does anything exist at all?" Most people search for an answer to this question, and they end up doing so outside of anything science can explain. Realistically, they'll never find the right answer. But sometimes openly atheist people on these forums act like searching for that answer through a non-scientific source is a stupid/illogical thing. Why?

    JesusC knows science can offer a lot a beneficial things to mankind. He is simply explaining that science isn't the only source offering life-relevant information. People often act as if it is, and convince themselves that anyone searching outside of science for answers is stupid.
     
  13. If religion means to answer the questions that science logic reason will never answer, then why has religion failed to get us any closer to the truth? All religion has done for us is started many bloody wars, and told us the beliefs of a few men thousands of years ago.

    Who the hell knows? Why do you ask ME to judge whether science can find out the ultimate question?

    In reality, on a long enough time scale anything is possible, so perhaps one day we will find out.

    Theres one thing thats certain, religion never will find out the ultimate answer, all it is a lazy way to answer it. We have all these questions about where we came from, and how what our meaning is, yet religion twirls all of that up in a cup and says "God". If we want real answers, we must go elsewhere.

    Religion is nothing but a hindrance to the future of mankind.

    Tell me jesus, Are you scared of finding out?
     
  14. You act as if we're at a stand still. Waiting for religion to stop, so we can actually move forward with relevant thought. Do you really know any person that doesn't want us to continue searching for answers? Lets keep science moving forward and redefine the concept of religion.

    Organized religion PHails, I agree. Any set view on life that doesn't change fails. Why can't religion and spirituality be redefined as the perceiving of fact? During our lifetime, we're not going to solve the question, so whats wrong with speculating the origins of the facts we uncover? Thats my idea of spirituality outside of science. Essentially, perceiving the questions asked by the answers we've already found.
     
  15. Or maybe you are interpreting it wrong.

    Do you agree right now that a lot of human resources are being wasted right now in the debate between science vs religion?
     




  16. Honestly man, your view of religion and spirituality is so narrow that its absolutely pointless to continue the discussion.
     
  17. Thats a pretty good way to opt out of an argument you have no chance of winning.

    I must give you props jesus, you at least know when to leave.
     




  18. My point exactly....

    You wish to argue, I wish to discuss.

    Your arguments consist of nothing more than an arrogant, condescending tone as if you know more than the rest of us....its evident throughout this entire section of the forums.

    If you take that as a victory, more power to you. Just keep in mind that theres a certain level of respect we must have for eachothers view points in order for us to understand where people are coming from, this is an area you lack in considerably.
     
  19. Why talk about a victory when we can discuss the actual issue? All you've done is concede and say that you have no retort to what I said.

    Everything is an argument, to suggest otherwise would be arrogant.

    I guess by proving that you have shown to me that you don't have a firm grasp of what a discussion really is. It's perfectly fine with me that you cannot effectively communicate your ideas, theres plenty of other people on this forum who will take your place.

    Anyone else want to discuss the actual topic, instead of this constant off topic banter that Jesus keeps starting?
     
  20. To understand exactly where you're coming from, your view on religion and spirituality is what exactly? Do you believe that science should be the foundations of knowledge, using "spirituality" to fill in the blanks or expand scientifically understood ideas? Am I being too black and white? Please, explain.
     

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