Reason

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by cannabis, Apr 26, 2008.

  1. Everything is an estimation


    We can't know anything for sure, regressus ad infinitum and problem of induction...consider the unknowable status of things in itself the uncertainty about the processes seeing things. model investigations where the model itself can change and finally, you can't even check it's verisimility because you don't have a mean against in order to check it...

    Truth exceeds proof. The limits of provability, computability, decidability suggest limits of human cognitively. But can reality exceed truth? true propositions about reality such as territories exceeding maps? Reality can't exceed itself (I guess?) thus it fundamentally must be understandable, even if most of it exceeds even the most exhaustive severity of Human intellect.


    We are human
    We can reason
    We are limited to human reason, so therefore we can't use human reasoning in order to reason beyond human reason.
     
  2. Cannabis! Where've you been man, hidin under a rock ? It's great to see you back on the forums.

    Well I am not human, not originally. I have been blessed, to this human body. Descending into into this place called Earth. It's quite interesting, although I would prefer to exist eternally, as my Soul. Seems my mortal body, is "somewhat" prohibiting me from gaining knowledge, from my Soul. Perhaps a Manna partaking, will be of some guidance.
     
  3. Overall, I like what you're saying, especially when it comes to truth. However, there are things we can know for sure. But, we don't know anywhere near what we "think we know". The problem is that definitions are becoming blurred when something known 99.9% is labeled as "fact" or "truth" when it actually does not meet the criteria or standard of measurement.

    Nothing less that 100% fact can be truth. If a future discovery proves what was once "truth" to be false, then it was never true to begin with regardless of how many people placed their stamp of approval on it. You're right, variables change, interactions vary, math can fail as a model.

    But most of all, props for this little quotable...
    "We are human
    We can reason
    We are limited to human reason, so therefore we can't use human reasoning in order to reason beyond human reason."​
     
  4. Do you claim that Jesus' resurrection is truth?
     
  5. You missed his point, he's saying we can't really know anything, not just disputed facts...
     
  6. We can predict cosmological events, so do we have cosmological reasoning too?
     

  7. Good post! I've tried entertaining a similar discussion with a member here, but to no avail.

    Truth exceeds proof. For sure. I've often wondered, and argued, over whether the current state of science is addressing a different truth. How things work, as opposed to why and how come?


    Here's a scenario:

    100 years ago, everyone would 100% agree, that say, someone going 100 km/h would travel 100 km in 1 hour. It's fact.

    But in that time, they never took into account special relativity; from which reference point is this taken? General Relativity, how the mass of the traveler curves time/space and "slows down" the signal? Non-locality and Quantum mechanics; the traveler is already there?


    So, I ask, has science successfully driven to the source of the problem, of just complicated everything?
     

  8. Indeed you have. And messed it up royally :)
     

  9. Care to explain to us how in this thread? Reason it out for us? Is my request reasonable to you?
     

  10. What events have we actually predicted? Are we predicting them or just analyzing events through observation? Cosmology is just like any study dealing with theory and model.
     
  11. Remember, I was not the one who awakened this resting dog.

    And as such, unless pressed, I shall not repeat myself. I have made my case. And you know as well as I that you can read all about it here.

    And if you got something new to that particular discussion, that is the place to forward it.

    (edit: I try not to trainwreck threads... This one can do without that other issue)
     

  12. So, in other words, no?
     
  13. I'm just saying that debate is not relevant to this thread.

    I did not say that if pressed I won't trainwreck this thread. But that is a bit unfair to the OP, and as such I seek to avoid it.

    I'd rather continue the discussion on "that other subject", in the thread it is already established as a subject, rather than continue it in this.

    Is that a hard concept to understand?

    So again, if you got something new to contribute on that other theme, please redirect it to that other thread. I promise to respond there.

    Don't attempt to hijack this thread on some off topic theme. I promise, I won't if you don't.
     
  14. all things labeled as reality are only human interpretation/perception of what is, yet there is no evidence to support that human interpretation/perception is in fact true reality.

    "One thing only I know, and that is that I know nothing." - Socrates

    /i cant decide if interpretation or perception works best, anyways my point of view (originally posted in my Logic thread)
     

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