Questions about bag seed?

Discussion in 'First Time Marijuana Growers' started by john delorenzo, Apr 29, 2010.

  1. I have a few questions about bag seed. I have a nice first grow of various bag seed plants about 28 days into 12/12. Most are from seeds I have saved over the years, a few are from a recent bag of what I consider good mids, and a couple are from a dubious but well touted source. I have some simple questions about bag seed in general and am in need of some education.

    1. Seedless weed is almost unheard of here, unless it costs $60 - $70 for about 2-3 grams in a stupid plastic cube. I buy “mids”, I guess for $180 - $200 an ounce which is good price locally. Does what I want it to do for my condition and doesn't cost me an arm and a leg. It always has seeds in it. Is this because the grower allowed the plants to be pollinated or hermied? Is this an indication that the product was grown outdoors or in a guerilla type grow?
    2. If all bag seed comes from hermies or pollinated females, can one reasonably expect that by trying to optimize indoor conditions and preventing the bag seed plants from hermi'ing or becoming pollinated (and thereby wasting energy on something other than bud production) one can get a product equal to or better than the sack that it came from? I understand that half of it depends on the genes of the males that pollinated the seed producing females, but can only believe that they would at least be males of the same strain in 99% of commercial grows whether they be in Ohio or Columbia.
    3. What are your bag seed “waste of time” or “wonderful experience” stories?
    4. What would you say the percentage of successful, personal THIRD grows are from seed and not from clones?
     
  2. In order-

    1.) Can I assume that you're somewhere in the US and probably talking about bricked "schwag" or "mid grade" here? In the case of brick weed, yes, they are generally grown outdoors (i.e. Mexico) or Guerilla-style in the mountains (i.e. out here in Appalachia, where most of the "good mid grade" pot comes from in the US). However, hermies/pollination happen indoors as well, the variables are simply more readily controlled by the grower in that case.

    2.) Yes, that is generally a reasonable assumption. With proper care given during cultivation and just as much care given during harvest, drying, and storage, you will almost invariably have better home-grown product than you can buy even if they are from bag seed. The exception to this is inefficient home setups, inexperienced growers, or poor genetics producing results that don't stack up to good commercial indoor operations.

    3.) One of the local cuts here in Asheville floating around is from a single seed I found in a jar full of NL#5...great producer, easily QP dry per plant with a 2 week veg from rooted clone, and classic NL buzz and old school flavor/smell. On the other hand, I've seen plenty of friends grow out bag seeds that they either couldn't take care of/finish in time (outdoors) or didn't have room for (indoors) because they were from mexican bud that is largely tall, lanky sativa genetics.


    4.) If you spend enough time researching, both online and through first-hand experience, your rate of success should be damned near 100%. Half-assed efforts result in half-assed results, as with anything in life.

    peace
     
  3. In order-

    1.) Can I assume that you're somewhere in the US and probably talking about bricked "schwag" or "mid grade" here? In the case of brick weed, yes, they are generally grown outdoors (i.e. Mexico) or Guerilla-style in the mountains (i.e. out here in Appalachia, where most of the "good mid grade" pot comes from in the US). However, hermies/pollination happen indoors as well, the variables are simply more readily controlled by the grower in that case.

    Yes, in the Western NY area, and yes, I guess "schwag" is what I am talking about. I am older than most of you, and remember when you bought an ounce of what we called Columbian Gold" for 30 bucks. It wasn't the prettiest product, but what it lost in appearance points it made up for in economy and general good "head high", something thats tough to find around here. What attracted me to growing to begin with was my advanced age and a lack of willigness to deal with the punks who have taken over the business here.

    2.) Yes, that is generally a reasonable assumption. With proper care given during cultivation and just as much care given during harvest, drying, and storage, you will almost invariably have better home-grown product than you can buy even if they are from bag seed. The exception to this is inefficient home setups, inexperienced growers, or poor genetics producing results that don't stack up to good commercial indoor operations.

    Understood, and I am trying to overcome all of your exceptions, all at once, although I know that is probably impossible.

    3.) One of the local cuts here in Asheville floating around is from a single seed I found in a jar full of NL#5...great producer, easily QP dry per plant with a 2 week veg from rooted clone, and classic NL buzz and old school flavor/smell. On the other hand, I've seen plenty of friends grow out bag seeds that they either couldn't take care of/finish in time (outdoors) or didn't have room for (indoors) because they were from mexican bud that is largely tall, lanky sativa genetics.

    I definitely have some of the lanky Sativa genetics going in 6 of my 10 plants, but was prepared for it, so space / height is not a problem. Asheville sounds like my dream home, by the way.


    4.) If you spend enough time researching, both online and through first-hand experience, your rate of success should be damned near 100%. Half-assed efforts result in half-assed results, as with anything in life.

    Thanks for the response and encouragement. I have easily spent hunfreds ofeaours researching and reading these and other forums. How many grows did you start from seed (if any) before going with clones?

    peace

    Thanks again and peace to you too.
     
  4. Sounds as though you are older than me, but I'm a fair bit older than most of the populace here myself ;) And I would do awful things to get ahold of legitimate landrace genetics like the Columbian family, Thai, real deal Afghanica strains, etc. I've got a handful of "Highland Oaxacan" beans going now so I have my fingers crossed that I got the real deal finally after years of searching. :hello:

    Asheville (all of Western NC, and all of the Blue Ridge Mtns really) is a really cool spot and I'm happy to have been given the opportunity to live here and make a life for myself in such a beautiful area. If you're ever around give me a shout and I'll have to show you some of the cool old "wannabe landrace" sativas them ol' mountain boys and hippies have been running for a hundred years out here :wave:


    I don't really recall when I did my first run of clones, probably not long after my first seed grow as I got a mom from my first bean ever and used the progeny from that for years for personal grows. I grow from clone for larger-scale monocropping where yield and consistency is the major factor, and otherwise as the situation calls for it (e.g. clone-only strains), but when it comes to my personal tents I'm all about going on pheno hunts with 2 or 3 packs each of a few varieties under each light.

    Matter of fact, as soon as I clear out a couple of my spots I'm going to dig out a few packs each of some old beans from the vault and go on some "elite pheno" hunting expeditions...looking for the "Ogre" cut from Sensi Star specifically :D

    gotta stop getting stoned and rambling, anyways, peace dude lol
     
  5. yall gettin robbed. mids cost 80-100 a O, even cheaper if you a few people. and im talking about good mids.

    dro for 350?!? kush is 300 a O.

    crazy how prices are different everywhere.
     
  6. Well JD it sounds like you and I might be from the same era, I remember Columbian for about $50 while the cheaper "Mexican" was about $30 an ounce. When I first grew, Gerald Ford was President...

    The thing to remember with bagseed is that it is a label that the grower/owner puts on the seed based on our knowledge of it -- the term doesn't characterize the seed itself. Bagseed is simply any seed that you don't know the genetics. So it could be amazing or awful or anything in between.

    So, let's say that I grew an amazing plant from pure-bred genetics. And let's say that plant got pollinated. Now, I give some to a friend of mine. That friend then gives some of it to you, and in that stash you find a seed. To you that is "bagseed" but another seed that is still in my stash is not "bagseed" because I know the genetics. Get how that works?

    It's kind of like the word "orphan", it has to do with external circumstances. Are orphans good athletes? Are they smart? Are they blonde? Each orphan is different and it all depends on many factors but none of those factors has to do with the person being an orphan.

    Weed with seeds was pollinated, whether by a male or a hermie. Yes you can grow seedless by keeping a vigilant eye out for any males and hermies and removing them the moment you spot them.

    Good chance you can get better quality out of a seed than the bag it came from because you will pay closer attention to the plant than a commercial grower did.

    However, newbies make mistakes, so bagseed is a really good choice for starting out because you might kill it, so no point in spending money on genetics if it dies.

    If you ever get to the point of buying genetics, I highly recommend getting feminized seeds. In spite of what some will say, femmed seeds from a reputable breeder are no more likely to go hermie than "regular" seeds.
     
  7. Well its only so high for me cause the guy i get it from gets it from a guy who pays full price so i just found my way to get it for free cause i was tired of paying that damn much
     

  8. here in oklahoma it isnt too bad, i can get some decent Reggie for $50 a zip
    and ounces of "nug" (seedless buds) for $350
    it's kinda odd because someone can just take a Dirt mexican seed, and grow it into a beautiful Seedless Plant and by our "standards" it's "nug" (or high grade bud)
     

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