Question to Statists: How is Taxation Not Theft?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Mr.Deez, Dec 1, 2011.

  1. That seems like Keynesian logic to me... Idk. Or instead of taking 100 years to pay off our debts, why don't we cut foreign and domestic spending (IE Paul's Plan) and break even in 3 years.

  2. High tax on rich ALWAYS works. Countless civilizations go to war and tax the middle class. The middle class either revolts or the extremely rich get much more powerful and limit the poor class.

    All of that is happening right now. Rich congress is using the middle class to pay for the wars. Middle class will revolt or congress will strengthen it's grip on the people by limiting rights. Middle class is currently protesting and congress is limiting our rights. One side will give and establish dominance.

    16 trillion in 3 years. We would have to sell American land to foreign countries.
    We can't give all our GDP for 3 years to get rid of the debt. Our economy would be worse then it was in the great depression.
  3. Meh, not worth arguing with you lol...
  4. Read about the state of nature.

    Then think about how paying taxes is a minor issue compared to living in a state of nature in which life is brutish, short and nasty according to Hobbes.
  5. It's not relevant at all. Your projection is noted.
  6. who enforces this contract?

    being that it's just an implied contract, do we just make up the rules as we see fit, as we go along?

    or are there a set of implied rules as well?
  7. A social contract is the basic understanding that being part of larger society means we agree to civilized behavior which effects other individuals or the many. It's implied for everyone who is a member of society.

    To some paying taxes is a civilized arrangement because it goes toward a government which should represent our interests domestic and abroad. To them taxation without representation is uncivilized but taxes that go towad representation is considered civlized.

    The Declaration of Independence is based greatly on the social contract theories of John Locke.
  8. #168 SouthrnSmoke, Dec 6, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 6, 2011

    So would you agree that any such implicit agreement to act civilized includes the notion that you cannot initiate force against other people?

    You said " to some paying taxes is part of being civilized."

    But is it still civilized when they violently force the others who disagree?

    Or, as an optional answer to the question, does it suddenly become okay to act on an uncivilized mAnner if somebody does not agree to pay these taxes.
  9. Firstly I don't think people are "violently" forced to pay taxes. If you don't pay, you get a court date, if found guilty you can go to prison. I'm not seeing the violent part.

    Secondly if you refuse to obey laws then you will be punished. Just because you feel the law is stupid doesn't mean you can disobey the law openly without punishment.

    But you can fight to get laws changed.
  10. #170 xmaspoo, Dec 6, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 6, 2011
    The logic of convenient thinking. I don't pay shit in taxes, so it's only inconvenient to me if they catch me with drugs. :rolleyes:

    I'm pretty sure when you arrest an individual you are initiating force, when you take someone to court you are initiating force, if you fail to show up an arrest warrant is issued.

    And if you resist at any point you get to spend some time with this guy.


    Or maybe these guys:


    IRS Raids Car Wash To Collect On 4 Cents

  11. Theft is violence. They are more likely to dock your pay directly ( more theft than they are already commiting) in order to get what government says you owe them.

    So when the govt. kidnaps you and locks you in a cell with people you don't want to be around, this is not violent? Remember they also do this with the threat of violence if you don't comply.

    If you don't have the ability to say no without being forced by the threat of, or actual violence, how can you say its not violent force?

    Come on dude, stop holding out on admitting this because you don't want to accept that you have been supporting this so strongly.
  12. #173 SouthrnSmoke, Dec 7, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 7, 2011
    From Dr. King

    This is an exact description of the libertarian, Ancap philosophy.( minus the god part, we believe in natural law, which christians believe is derived from god.)

    "Punished" Is the wrong term for what your saying. Punishment suggests retribution for doing something wrong. Many things people can be "punished" for by the state are not morally wrong.

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