Hey guys, so I have posted before regarding strange issues I have seen in my no till set up. Since my last post I have discontinued use of practically everything except for aloe powder from buildasoil in my water and a one time application of mykos upon transplant into my 10 gallon container and one application of tribus (overall microbe product). I also did a foliar of fulpower at half strength just the past week, however, the problem was presenting before that was done and has not gotten worse since the application. The color of the leaves for the most part is good, except for a couple plants that are slightly lighter green than the others, however, this could just be a genetic thing as they are not displaying any burnt tips, etc. Same with the other plants...no burnt tips or signs of deficiencies or anything. In addition, the lower leaves seem to not be going through the same issue with twisting leaves. My first thought was either wind burn or heat stress. I have 2 600 watt single ended HPS lights over them roughly 2 and a half feet above the canopy in vented hoods that are adequately vented. The oscillating fan I had in the room was definitely pointed towards them at an angle but was only on speed 1 and 2 out of 3 and does oscillate so maybe I am under estimating how much wind can effect plants but my first thought was not wind burn, however, I am honestly hoping this is the issue as it is quick to fix and would be a lot simpler than most the other issues this could be. The room I am having this issue in has 6 different strains in it and some are displaying the issues more than others. My other room has very little air flow (one very small desk fan) and the leaves on those plants (different genetics) are absolutely picture perfect. It is also worth noting that the light (a 600 watt hps) in this room is even closer to the canopy than my affected room. I grow in basically the same mix as the no-till revisited thread states with additions of fish bone meal, langebite, and biolive. I put minuscule amounts of each of those constituents into the mix as to not over do it with amendments as I am very aware that less is usually more, especially in organics. This is also the first round of plants this soil has seen for what its worth, however, the other plants are in the exact same soil except 3 gallon pots (I am pheno hunting which is why the small size). I water with poland springs water (yes I know it is probably overkill) and I keep close watch on pot weight (I use smart pots) in order to tell when to water which normally ends up about once a week, however, I will be installing blumats within the next two weeks. My temps do get up to 82 some days only because I have yet to turn my AC on for the year yet (I am in New England) and my humidity stays right around 45 percent. These are also the same in the room that is not displaying any of these issues. It seems to happen the later I let the plants go into veg for what its worth. I will post pictures tonight but I wanted to articulate this first as It has been on my mind all day at work haha. I will also post some same pics in the mean time so that you guys can get an idea of what I am dealing with before I get home tonight and can take my own. Thank you all for your time!
Poland springs?? Wow, you are going to have an expensive grow, especially when they start drinking a gallon a day! Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
@glueberry_crunch So this brings up another issue...my plants NEVER take a gallon at a time. I generally give them 8-10 cups every 7-10 days. This seems light to me as well but my plants are showing they do not need anymore in that time. Is this normal for 10 gallon pots? I mean I give my 3 gallons 8-10 cups a week or so which seems normal for that size but I am perplexed by the 10's which is the main reason I am going to blumats, along with being able to use tap water again lol.
It'll depend on the size of the plants. I have one plant right now, day 27 of flower. I use blumat (first time) which I ABSOLUTELY LOVE by the way. It's great because I can see how the reservoir changes each day and measure how much the plant is ACTUALLY drinking. She was veg'd for about 8 weeks and is currently drinking 0.75 gallons of filtered tap water every day. She's only going to get thirstier as we get deeper into flower. She's in a 12 gallons tote, and it's an organic grow, water only and an occasional AACT. Oh, and lights are going to matter also. I have a single 400w HPS on her. Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
So I know the pics are under the HPS, however, the color on them is fine it's just the twisting as you see. Today actually looks a bit better since moving the fan but I am unsure if that is just a random correlation. Thank you guys for taking the time to look and respond.
Possibly lights too close.. too strong .. back em’ off a lil.. Vegging outside the flower tent Vegging outside the flower tent
@Sypha Yeah I was thinking that may be the issue just because the color of the leaves for the most part is on point. Just weird because the plants in the other room have the lights much closer and have basically no air flow and are not showing this at all. @Patanjali Hmm...how did you come to that conclusion? I did a quick search for molybdenum deficiency in cannabis and most of the pictures show discolored, purple-ish leaves which mine do not exhibit currently. They are also growing quite well minus this mishap. I also forgot to mention that I did add lime as well to the initial mix.
@Patanjali Do you have any ideas for maybe a quick, foliar feed fix for this? I did a quick search and found that sometimes this deficiency can result from a deficiency in either sulfur or phosphorus. I immediately thought of doing applications of mammoth P to take care of that, however, do you know if there is a fixing bacteria or fungi for sulfur? I just don't want to chase one deficiency if there is another problem lurking ya know?
@Ancient3328 if you dont mind me asking, is the overall health of the twisted leaf plant good? !eaf surfaces otherwise healthy, petioles green? if the answers are 'yes' then maybe you just have an anomaly and should perhaps not try fixing anything. the overall health of the plant is what matters. if it's green and growing you may want to think about litfa. just saying....
Is it the same light in both areas.. even the same strain can react different to lighting.. its just what she perfers Vegging outside the flower tent Vegging outside the flower tent
The first thing I would do is a cheap soil pH test from your local hardware store. If you added 1 cup per cubic foot of each: crab, oyster and fish bone meal it could have been enough to push the pH too high. I saw similar issues myself and began by ruling out heat, light and wind stress. I also noticed a reduction in water uptake. If everything is good, you should see roots just below the mulch or actually growing through the mulch. I did see burnt tips and some purple stems in your pics. Some plants being affected while others were not is also what I noticed in my grow. Same, same the issue worsens the longer I vegged. For $8-10 you can determine if this is the issue or it can at least be ruled out. RD
I'm going to make a guess that you also used Coast of Maine Quoddy blend compost as well? I have a suspicion that with all the lobster shell in the compost the pH is probably high. Given that New England soils are typically low pH it's probably a good thing for most gardeners in the are. RD
@Possuum Thank you for the reply man! I usually would totally think the same way but I am seeing a reduction in water uptake and some slowed growth. It seems to happen almost every time when I get farther than say 4-5 weeks into veg. @ElRanchoDeluxe Dude! That actually sounds like EXACTLY what I am dealing with lol. Some plants are showing it while others aren't, slowed water uptake, and it ALWAYS gets worse the longer I veg. Like literally the first 2-3 weeks are a breeze and then the problems slowly creep in. I will definitely be buying one of those to check...are you talking about the kind that has the 2 probes that go into the soil? Or should I test runoff? Problem is I never water to runoff so the probe kind would be easier for me if it is accurate enough. Thanks man!
@ElRanchoDeluxe Actually I don't use the lobster compost anymore because I had heard problems that other people were having with it a couple years back. I currently use Bu's dynamic blend compost which I do love but I am all ears to other options.
Right on man. How much oyster, crab and fish bone meal did you use per c.f.? Was the crab meal ground up really fine? I just used a cheap chemical kit that you mix with soil and distilled water. @JMcGD used it too and then got a soil test done and it was pretty darn accurate. I was just guessing about the compost. Bu's is really good but I bet it's awfully expensive on the East Coast. RD
Sorry man, I was just teasing on the molybdenum lol. What are temps and humidity levels? Edit: nvm, I see you posted temps/rH. You could try lowering temps and/or increasing humidity. That's my 2¢ lol. P-
So u stopped using it just cuz others had issues with it.. not cuz uve had any issues with it.. just a question?? Vegging outside the flower tent Vegging outside the flower tent
I agree with @ElRanchoDeluxe, a quick easy place to start is a soil ph test. rapid test was the brand I used, found it in the garden section of my hardware store. While you’re at it I would definitely figure out where your water sits too. My soil in my beds was fine at first but my high ph water with severe levels of bicarbonate really screwed up the chemistry. @Patanjali ’s suggestion of lower temps and higher ph sounds good too. Lately I’ve been closer to ideal VPD than usual and it seems to be helping the plants deal with the poor soil conditions. I’m also suspicious of the two 600w HPS over them. How big of a footprint are you covering with those? HPS bombard the plants with photons, and two off them placed too close together and too close to the plant could cause problems, especially if it’s already stressed from the possible high ph levels. Those bulbs should also be replaced yearly under most flowering cycles. HTH...