What happened to your "We all live the life of misery"? I start agreeing with you and you flip faster than Donald did on healthcare. Can society exist without a 'Social Contract"? We trade some of our nautral rights in for safety and law and order. In nature without protection we can look forward to a life of plunder, rape and murder. Like it or not we all exist in society that for the most part protects us from one another. Your fantasy can not exist without society. Human nature won't allow the fantasies you envision
Sorry I didn't really state that clearly. What I mean is what does someone say when they say I have a right to x y or z. What they mean is that they ought to have x y or z. So for example say I have a right to free speech. That right basically jusy means the govenrment can not infringe upon my right to speak. But ultimately that right is only as good as the govenrment you have in power commuting to their founding principles. The point being that even say in an anarchist state. You can say you have a right to free speech but you can easily be stifled by individuals say who dislike your speech possibly in fatal ways. My point is that rights really are a loaded term because they imply that somehow they are divine entities given to us but that simply is not the case. Rights are something every human ought to have and often require some kind of a centralized framework to ensure everyone gets them. But even that becomes tricky because rights often conflict with each other and there is no clear answers as the case I provided over the abortion rights debate. The point being the conversation around rights is often very dogmatic when in reality there is a much more nuance and shades of grey
It's not about taking stuff and just giving it away, it's about benefiting the country as a whole. If everybody is a bunch of selfish shubs, you've got yourself a shitty country. If your country cares about each other and collectively agrees to help each other, don't you think that's like a million times better than leaving everyone to fend for themselves? Haven't you ever heard that we're stronger when we're together? And again, what do we do with mental illness? Just trash it? and what about the many poor families with kids or even adults suffering mental illness, just let it be somebody else's problem? Problem with that is, often times people with mental illnesses (to a certain severity) often do cause problems for everybody else, and account for a large percentage of the homeless population, as they are usually not capable of working. And most of the American mass shootings are people with mental illnesses, and virtually every school shooter has had a mental illness. Sooo your solution is to do what with them? Just let them be a problem, when you have a possible solution to the problem right in front of your face? Or at least quite a big fix? Anddd what do we do with people who murder? Who enforces law? If there is no official law, who's to say a gang or mob won't come and mark territory and create their own laws and force you to follow them? Not trying to live in a third world country here.
What people don't understand is you don't need government to be a middle man and redistribute vast amounts of wealth so things are "fair". If you provide value to other people, they will provide value to you. You don't need a government apparatus to facilitate cooperation for mutual benefit. I'm not an anarchist, I recognize that a state needs to exist and serves a legitimate purpose, but this idea that government should be involved in every aspect of human life and society is just insane. When it comes to things like healthcare, there is no easy fix. It will be expensive no matter how you set the system up because the laws of economics will always apply. It's in high demand, requires very skilled people and very expensive equipment to provide it. Socializing the costs doesn't make them go away. The left wing argument basically comes down to "we can have a free lunch, if only those right wingers would stop keeping us from eating the free lunch" when that's just not how reality works. Governments don't produce value or create wealth. The only way they can provide something to you is by taking it from somewhere else. If that's your position, fine, but don't try to claim the moral high ground while taking that stance because you don't have it.
I certainly never flipped. The beauty of life is the possibilities between the extremes. We can live in misery or in bliss, fortunately we are the authors of reality. You can certainly say that nature won't allow such blissful fantasies, but I ask you, why not? Is it fundamentally impossible? Are we humans not just stuck in a rut of repeating patterns of self-destruction? We need only change our minds and reality will change around us.
You're funny. I also am a store manager of a store, I work part time and always have worked consistently with the same job since I was 16 years old. I contribute taxes all the damn time. And you're saying school is a pointless activity? Alrighty then, Who made this technological world we love so much? Who keeps it up? Who makes sure you have power when your power goes out??? You must be an electrical engineer with a bachelor's degree to get into any field regarded high voltage electricity repair, so those power lines need people with bachelor's degree. I am working on being an electrical engineer. Yeah, I'm not contributing anything to society, I'm just pointlessly learning nothing for no reason at all.... Come on now, think for a second.... School is not some pointless activity, and it's not contributeless, scientists and researches and doctors and dentists and electricians ALL COME FROM SCHOOLS!
Would you like a Doctor to operate on you without any school? Would you like an electrician to try to fix your power, with no training or school? Would you like your dentist to fuck up your teeth without any school? Yeah.... school is pointless..... Just let people wing it.
My favorite one is "everything taught in school can be learned online". Then why do places of employment still ask for transcripts, degrees, and credentials?
Even if that was so, would you feel comfortable with a guy who's about to do some major surgery on you saying, "HOLD ON, let me pull up my online video on how to do this." Physical practice goes a lot longer of a way than simply seeing it. Just like how you can be revealed all the answers to a test to study for, then when the test comes, you still fuck up and miss answers. And there are certain techniques and skills you must be aware about, and sometimes, it really does just simply take practice to do it right. And I sure as hell wouldn't want to be the practice. Just saying.
I'm glad you have worked since you were 16. I've worked, full time since I was 13. Yes, you read that right. 13. Did I say school was pointless? No, you just got way triggered there. Take a breath. My point is, you are advocating for wealth redistribution as someone who admittedly contributes much less to those tax reserves than what you would be pulling back out, what with socialized healthcare and all. Hence, us full time working stiffs would be paying for you to go to school and your healthcare. Thats what this whole discussion was about right? Not trying to derail it with a schooling discussion. I've made my thoughts on "higher education" pretty well known, thats for another thread.
At this exact moment, yes, I do make less than a lot, but that is 100% exactly why I'm working on higher education so that I can get out of that, and I do enjoy electronics. Soon I will be paying my fair share, and honestly I won't have ANY problem with it, having came from the lower end of the the wealth income bracket and working my way up, I'll be more than happy to give my tax dollars away to another kid who may need his education too. I have 0 problems with that. None. And even when I'm taxed more, it won't matter because the money I'd be making is still significantly more than before. You may think I'm just saying that, but I'm not. I really do have no problem, I've seen the tax rates and I'm fine with them, I'd still be making plenty of money to survive and then some (lots). I'm simple, I don't need many material things, so I wouldn't be the type to spend my money anyways.
hey dude, thats great man. Good for you. We all have our convictions and no one is trying to make you feel less of a person. I was just trying to point out the juxtaposition to your thoughts on wealth re-distribution. There are two sides to every story, or sometimes more, lol. To be realistic, I had some of the same thoughts when I was younger as well. But, its funny, being in the world after a few years you may see your feelings and thoughts on these things changing a little bit. Or you may not. No biggie. Its just important to understand that while you may feel the way you do, there are many who feel the opposite. Thats why we vote, every 2 years for congress and 4 years for the presidency. You have a way to make your voice heard, so please, do it!
You need to pick up where Mr Tesla left off, please. Even though wireless transmission of power would put me out of a job...
Perhaps so, we are constantly changing after all! I have almost been swayed a couple points in this thread, if nothing else, I absolutely see your perspective 100% and get it, but I simply disagree and feel that it's not that simple as just not taxing, because it's already been engraved in society everywhere all over the world. It's something that is obviously going to happen. I feel that if we can make the entirety of the world a better place, that should be the goal. But of course - I totally get that! We've all got different opinions, but I personally believe there is no true right opinion, otherwise it'd be fact or fiction, but it's an opinion for a reason. In the end, both of us want what's best for this country I believe. Most of us don't sit around trying to think how to wreck it, though I'm sure some do. We both just want what's best for this generation and the next to come and the country as a whole.
I agree with what you say here. Just remember, what works in the world doesn't mean it will work here. US is a much different beast with how the government is designed, which is why its so difficult for these things to happen, like socialized medicine. I think a big part of the issue is so much focus on the rest of the world, and what works for them. And much less on our country and what is best for us. IMO thats where the flaw of the rationalization behind socialism. The rest of the world isnt't the united states, and while its in the worlds interest that we do well, its certainly not in our best interest to make everyone else to well at our peril.
Don't believe the bullshit about socialized medicine being perfect. I'm sitting here in Canada still waiting to see an orthopedic surgeon for an injury 6 months old. Sure it's free when they finally get around to it, but in the meantime I live with constant shoulder pain and partial functionality. And the tax rate here in Canada is extreme compared to what Americans pay, so I should really write "free" in quotation marks. If you guys ever get socialized medicine (beyond the current forms you do already have) you'll need to pay much more in tax to afford it.
shit I understand that 100% man. absolutely. I wish more people would take real life situations like this into consideration instead of the emotional arguments.