Put This In Your Pipe And Smoke It

Discussion in 'Religion, Beliefs and Spirituality' started by newnature23, Apr 3, 2016.

  1. Grace within a dispensation was one thing, a dispensation characterized solely by grace is something else altogether. Grace is the foundation on which Paul’s entire ministry was built, and grace covers all the bases for the believer’s life. There is a glory that belongs to God’s grace, and it is to be praised on the bases on what God’s grace has accomplished. 


    Paul had been given special divine authority with the understanding that he is our apostle, and that authority carried with it the details of what God expects people to believe today, concerning the salvation Jesus Christ purchased for them with his sacrifice. 


    Therefore, God in his infinite wisdom devised a plan whereby he could take the very faith belonging to his son, along with its resultant faithfulness, and credit that faith and faithfulness to the account of those who believe. It is Christ’s faith that is freely credited to the account of the one who believes the good news message given to the apostle Paul to proclaim to us in this age of grace. 


    Paul wants us to know how a person is saved. He wants us to understand the basis by which God provides eternal security, not only has provided the gift of salvation; but provides eternal security to all those who place their faith in what the sacrifice of his son accomplished. It is our faith in the accomplishment of Jesus Christ’s faithful sacrifice that is the means whereby God acknowledges that we have accepted the gift his son purchased.
     
  2. I have serious problems with this theology. You are describing Yahweh the debt collector, the universal banker.

    We are not born into debt/slavery my friend, we are sovereign beings.
     
  3. But when you accept your redeemer and the ransom he paid, then you are joined to Christ and you have his righteousness attributed to your account. Grace is Grace. Salvation is a Gift. God in his sovereignty offers that Gift and allows the human race to accept or reject the Gift.
     
  4. There's to many stems and seeds in your theology, empty your pipe and smoke some Paul.

    When Paul refers to us as the called, he is referring not just to the fact that God is extending a call to us, an invitation or summons. Paul’s also referring to the fact that God’s calling us to participate in that to which we have been called, the Body of Christ. The Body of Christ is an expression denoting the point when God began to judicially join believers to his son, the Body of Christ is not about program, but about judicial identity. 


    God forgave us, not because he had to, but because it was his desire too. God accomplished through Christ what we could never do on our own. God did not wait for us to do the first step. God had a choice, Jesus Christ had a choice, and they chose to do it. Christ believed that his sacrifice would settle the sin issue once and for all, and that God would raise him from among the dead. 


    What an ingenious salvation plan, to take someone else that is righteous and join us to that person. Sin causes a debt to God so large that it can never be paid by ourselves, but the person who knows what Jesus Christ really accomplished, exist in a completely new relationship with God. Justification is a legal act, wherein God deems the sinner righteous on the basis of Christ’s righteousness. 


    Justification is not a process, but is a one-time act, complete and definitive. God could only declare us to be right on the bases of who and what he is, not on the bases of who and what we would be apart from him. God had to devise a way to see us that way, and the way he devised to do that was by joining us to, hiding us in our perfectly righteous savior, thus freely crediting to our account Christ righteousness.
     
  5. I am familiar with Anselms argument. Man sinned against an infinite god, therefore there is an infinite debt. Since man is finite, he cannot repay an infinite debt. So god decided to incarnate as man, where as a man, he can repay the debt, and as god, it will be infinitely fulfilled.

    Very simplified I admit.

    However, the Bible says we inherited death, not sin, therefore we are not in debt to sin.

    But with your last response, you verified my point. The god you describe is a god of debt, therefore we are born into slavery in your view.

    Just curious, what do you think is being referred to when the Bible says we are created in His image?
     
  6. Do bong hit before you read this. But let's look at the the cave people during The fifth ‘a day’ in Genesis, that fifth ‘a day’ took around four and half billion years. Look at the cave people, God did not create them in his image. Being created in the image of God means that we must view ourselves as intrinsically valuable and richly invested with meaning, potentially and responsibilities. We are to be and to do on a finite scale, what God is and does on an infinite scale.

    By virtue of being created in the image of God, human beings are capable of reflecting his character in their own life; animals possess none of these qualities. What distinguishes people from animals is the fact that human nature inherently has godlike possibilities.

    Omniscience, omnipotence, or omnipresence, none of these other divine attributes have been ascribed to the human race as part of the image of God. We have been created to reflect God in our thinking and actions, but the physical sustained by God and dependent upon him for our existence in this world and in the world to come. Developing a godly character in this present life, this will be our personal identity in the world to come. It is the character or personality that we have developed in this life, that God preserves in his memory.

    So these cave people, they would have to have everything we have,

    These cave people would not have had a God conscious, like God has given to the human race a God consciousness, the conscious perception that we could say that there is a God somewhere and that ultimately the human race is accountable to that God. These cave people would have been smart, knowing how to make a living.
     
  7. 'A day' gap theory heh?

    Ignoring the "And there was evening, and there was morning the fifth day." maybe day and night lasted 4.5 billion years?

    That's beside the point, in just noticed the careful 'a day'.

    Is god in debt? If not, why are we in debt?

    I'll cut to the chase. Understanding god and Yeshua becomes much more simple when you assume the purpose was... FREEDOM/SOVEREIGNTY

    That is gods image. If you believe all of the editted Bible to be literal, which I know you do not, you will wonder why the serpent is equated with the enemy.

    The serpent gave you FREEDOM/Sovereigny with the symbolic act, eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. When we went from being animals/drones to sovereign human beings. The serpent also said, we shall be as gods.

    It seems to me, Yahweh created us as drones, and the serpent came and freed us. So believing we were created in God's image, in debt and a slave, seems pretty silly.

    Is it not more reasonable to say we were created in gods sovereign image?
     
  8. Here is why we are in debt.

    But you better take another bone hit, maybe two for this one.

    If one really thinks about it, having that good and bad knowledge is no guarantee that one will choose or incline towards the good. After all, that’s what the serpent omitted in his speech, before Eve ate off the tree of knowledge of good and bad. The serpent said, “You are not going to die, but Yahweh knows that as soon as you eat of it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like divine beings, who know good and bad.” It’s true in one sense, but false in another; the serpent sort of omitted to point out, that its the power of moral choice alone, that is Yahweh like. The very action that brought Adam and Eve a Yahweh like awareness of their mortal autonomy, was an action that was taken in opposition to Yahweh. Yahweh knows that, that human beings will become like Yahweh, knowing good and bad; it’s one of the things about Yahweh, he knows good and bad, and has chosen the good. For Adam and Eve to have true freedom of will, Adam and Eve have to have the freedom to rebel. This is why this tree is in the garden, next to the tree of life; instead, evil will come about as a result of the clash of the will of Yahweh, and the will of humans, who happen to have the freedom to rebel.

    Human beings, and only human beings are the potential source of evil, responsibility for evil will lie in the hands of human beings. Yet, evil is represented not as a physical reality, it’s not built into the structure of Eden, evil is a condition of human existence, and to assert that evil stems from human behavior. The drama of Adam and Eve’s life should revolve not around the search for eternal life, nor preoccupation with immortality; it was not in Yahweh’s design for this kind of drama. It was Yahweh’s design for the tree of life to have been eaten of, there was no danger to Adam and Eve going on eternally, being immortal. The eating off the tree of knowledge of good and bad, has caused a moral conflict and tension between Yahweh’s good design for creation, and the free will of human beings that can corrupt that good design. Evil is a product of human behavior, not a principal inherent in the cosmos. Man’s disobedience is the cause of the human predicament. Human freedom can be at one and the same time an omen of disaster, and a challenge, and opportunity.

    So despite Adam and Eve’s newfound mortality, humans are going to be a force to be reckoned with. They’re unpredictable to the very Yahweh who created them. Yahweh has to modify his plan, by barring access to the tree of life; that was not something presumably Yahweh planned to do. Adam and Eve had access to this tree up to that point, as long as their will conformed to the will of Yahweh, there was no danger to their going on eternally, being immortal. Once they discovered their moral freedom, once they discovered that they could thwart Yahweh and work evil in the world, and abuse and corrupt all that Yahweh had created, then Yahweh could not afford to allow them access to the tree of life. That would be tantamount to creating divine enemies, immortal enemies.

    So Yahweh must maintain the upper hand in his struggle with these humans who have learned to defy him. And Yahweh maintains the upper hand in this, the fact that humans eventually must die. Yahweh stations the cherubim and the fiery ever-turning sword to guard the way back to the tree of life, once Adam and Eve were banished from the garden. The tree of life is now inaccessible; no humans have access to immortality, and the pursuit of immortality is futile. So it might be then that Yahweh really spoke the truth after all, the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and bad did bring death to the human race.
     
  9. You have a problem.

    You list omniscience as one of Gods attributes, and later you say humans are unpredictable to Yahweh.

    So is Yahweh not God?
     
  10. Fuck knows what that is but I have the feeling I'll be smoking the bible.
     
  11. Not so, because Yahweh was not identified with nature, Yahweh transcended nature; and Yahweh wasn’t known through nature or natural phenomena. Yahweh was known through history, events and a particular relationship with a man, which Yahweh formed from the dust of the earth. Genesis 3:15 is some good stuff to put into your pipe; what a rush?
     
  12. Are you saying Yahweh is not God?
     
  13. Let's put some bible in our pipe. I live in Oregon and the good stuff is right down the road. Maybe I be smoking a little to much, but us stoner's can see this. We stoner's don't like stems and seeds when it comes to Genesis.

    Genesis 1:1 shouldn’t have happened. The bible assumes that the great usurper exits and never questions that assumption. The earth flooded out proves the great usurper is not an unfounded assumption. The beginning of the universe is in Genesis 1:1. Darkness was upon the earth, it appears the earth is in some kind of black structure. The great usurper and those who helped him out are swimming around on the earth. Now the earth, the opposite of the created order is ‘nothing,’ (water). But to the ancients, the opposite of the created order was something much worse than ‘nothing’ (chaos). 


    God just sat for awhile looking at this new black structure from his throne room, letting the great usurper sweet it out. As the great usurper sat in this black structure board out of his mind, all of a sudden a wind (invisible force) from God swept over the water. Now God is a spirit being, meaning his body is composed of a substance called spirit. God also has a unique kind of life within that body composed of that substance called spirit, but the life God has within himself produces some kind of light (His glory). It was this glory that used to be the light source to the earth, but God can’t control it, his glory just shines right through his body of spirit. As God sat in his throne room, out of nowhere he said, “Let there be light.” 


    Now, somehow from God’s throne room he was able to focus his glory into a beam and bounced that beam of glory off of a prism of some kind. The glory beamed from the other side of that prism and went into that black structure. yet that black substance structure contained that glory. This all I got so far, but do a bong hit and help me figure this out?
     
  14. Right mate I don't have a scooby what you are on about, but I think you should lay off smoking the bible
     
  15. No, the bible is cool stuff. It's all those stems and seeds of religion that gets in the way. Take a bonger, you will see that the bible is too easy to figure out?
     
  16. Yahweh is God, but you got to do a bong hit to figure it out?
     
  17. Here is why we are unpredictable, because evil is a product of human behavior, not a principal inherent in the cosmos. It is the power of moral choice alone, that is Yahweh like and having that good and bad knowledge is no guarantee that one will choose or incline towards the good. The very action that brought Adam and Eve a Yahweh like awareness of their mortal autonomy, was an action that was taken in opposition to Yahweh.

    Yahweh knows that, that human beings will become like Yahweh, knowing good and bad; it’s one of the things about Yahweh, he knows good and bad, and has chosen the good. Human beings, and only human beings are the potential source of evil, responsibility for evil will lie in the hands of human beings. Evil is represented not as a physical reality, it’s not built into the structure of Eden, evil is a condition of human existence, and to assert that evil stems from human behavior.
     
  18. I don't have any cannabis.

    Yahweh = God

    God = Omniscient

    Yahweh finds humans unpredictable

    I am fairly learned in logic, and I call tell you there is a problem with this my friend.

    I don't ask you to provide an answer, I am hoping you will absorb this and reconsider your belief.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. I showed you your answers. Are you going to play that religion trick with questions. Answer the question trick?
     
  20. Humans are not the sole source of evil.

    How about the sadistic God telling Abraham to sacrifice his son. Sadly, Abraham was going to do it, until an Angel interceded saying basically "nevermind, Just making sure You fear god"

    Fear is a weapon, the same weapon the corrupt governments of the world uses to suppress the sovereignty of humanity.
     

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