Purple Train Wreck, is wrecked?

Discussion in 'Growing Marijuana Indoors' started by codylee, Jul 29, 2019.

  1. Hi guys n gals. This is my second attempt, the pictures are from Friday 7/26/19 end of week 3 from the clone shop.

    I am using the 3 basic fox farm neuts as well as ocean forest soil also by them.

    I feed 2 times a week with a gallon of water for each plant.

    PH is measured after neuts are mixed in with water and is typically between 5.8-6.2 (Soil Meter says 7.0..)
    PPM on week 3 was 750 going in and 2300 ppm runoff.. Seems like too much?

    So I have a lot of questions.. lol

    What are the brown spots?

    Should I remove the leaves?

    Am I correctly monitoring the PPM and flushing properly for soil? If not HOW should I go about feeding and watering?

    Does it appear that I topped the plants correctly??

    WHEN should I prune the leaves below the canopy and how much should I take off above the canopy for optimal air flow and light penetration?

    The plants are about 3 feet from the lights right now and I can only raise the lights about 6 more inches. Judging by the pictures, how much taller will the plants get?

    I can't think of anymore questions atm but I really want to nail this one!
    Any help is greatly appreciated =)
     

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  2. No problem at all. Slight amount of calcium deficiency. Otherwise they look fine.

    When you transplant mix in about 15-20% additional course perlite and use fabric pots. It will dramatically increase your root aeration over plastic buckets and your plant's metabolism will follow if you feed it correctly.

    I'm not sure if you have any calcium rich supplement you can increase the amount of but you have pretty minimal deficiency so far. Some here and there is pretty normal especially on lower leaves.
     
  3. You sure? this looks off.. and I do not plan on transplanting at all, they are staying in those 5 gallon buckets until they are done =)
     

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  4. Plant training takes time and technique to learn. If you let the plant grow all the way through the net it won't offer much support plus the squares on that net are quite wide. It's more of a late flower support net instead of a training net.

    Raise the net up a bit and start training those plants wider.

    Or just pull the net out and put it back in later when you have heavy colas that need to be supported from falling over. Put it on the top of an already flowered plant.

    This is my favorite training method.
    Super Cropping Marijuana: Simple Secret to Bigger Yields | Grow Weed Easy

    Master it and you'll be in complete control of your plant canopy. You want to fill the area wall to wall and then thin it out the perfect amount for the right penetration while removing lower growth that won't get enough light to develop properly.

    This is my current canopy in flower for almost a week. This is what you're looking for as far as fullness wall to wall before flip. Keep working on training IMO.
    IMG_1206.JPG
     
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  5. Those pictures look like lack of air to the roots which those plastic buckets and not enough perlite mixed in will give you.

    The brown rusty spots in random locations are calcium deficiency most likely. Could be caused by stagnant feed rate because of lack of air to the roots.
     
  6. So what should I do aside from transplanting and adding perilite?? O_O
     
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  7. Judging by my pics.

    Should I keep topping the tallest areas then to continue the growth at the bottom and fill up the canopy that way then flip it?

    Or is it too late and I should just focus on pruning before flipping?
     
  8. Yes. Almost everything on the market straight from the bag retains too much moisture and is designed for houseplants and outdoor plants that are either in hot locations or you don't want to water that often. For an indoor growing fast annual you want lots of air to the roots and those moisture retaining soils often water log the roots. Leaves breathe CO2 and roots need oxygen for rapid growth.

    Most experienced cannabis growers will mix in about 20% additional perlite with any medium they use even coco growers will often mix in perlite. My favorite perlite to use is course grade with the larger grain. It tends to resist compaction and promote drainage even better then smaller grain perlite.

    Fabric pots and other well aerated potting methods can help almost as much.

    You may find if you do this you need to switch to daily feeding to runoff or even up to twice a day with a large plant in a smaller pot.

    I did some experimenting comparing 5 gallon finishing pot size with 7 gallon with identical clones. Average increase in yield going to 7 gallon was 50% more flower. That is now my go to finishing size if the plant is large enough. Larger pot = larger roots = larger yield from many factors including more even moisture level through the day. A plant in too small of a pot has a more extreme wet/dry cycle depending on your method. Something to think about. You can get by in a smaller pot and grow huge plants hydro feeding but you have to increase the number of feed times a day as the plant requires.

    I've seen monster plants in 6" rockwool cubes but they feed like 3 times a day.
     
  9. Topping is a rookie training method IMO. The plant grows much more rapid if you don't remove the strongest tops. Master supercropping. It's easymode training. Keep tape handy for breakage quick repairs. You can modify some neddle nose pliers for more easy stem pinching/creasing without breakage. Just pad them with rubber hose or tape on the jaws.
     
  10. I wait to lollipop a few weeks before flip and a few weeks after. You can do it one more time earlier in the grow but I try to train wide early instead and give the lower growth a change to become part of the top if it can. It beats just spreading the top for speed of veg growth when the plant is small. Wait until it's larger to remove material.
     
  11. Fabric pots are also generally squat and wide. A 7 gallon fabric pot is 6" shorter then a 5 gallon bucket. I think my 10 gallon fabric pots are shorter then a 5 gallon bucket so even though they take up floor space it's not like you're using it. They take up less headroom so you can grow the plant taller and still maintain enough light distance flowering it when it's more beefy. IMG_1188.JPG
     
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  12. Fox farms bag soils are also quite "hot'' from the bag or strong. I can see some dark color on your leaves. The perlite helps water them down so they're not so harsh on the plants early on when they're still full strength from the bag.
     
  13. Heya! So I woke up today and noticed that another leaf on each plant looks like the picture. It seems to be spreading.

    I have taken the liberty of removing them from the buckets for more aeration and halted feeding for now.

    Any thoughts?

    Also, feeding two times a week at a gallon of water each plant following that schedule with the fox farm neuts seems to not be working... What is a good feeding schedule to switch to once I get rid of this problem (hopefully)
     

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  14. That actually looks like phosphorus deficiency starting. The leaves are dark green so there's more then enough nitro. It's a symptom of a veg nutrient schedule sometimes to have low P. Most nutrient lines are very low in P during veg. It's one reason I veg with more of what would traditionally be considered a bloom npk ratio. Twice as much phosphorus as nitrogen.

    Phosphorus is also the first nutrient to drop out of absorption typically when the ph goes too high. Is your ph off?

    Most people who use fox farms will feed with just water until the soil gets depleted some and then they bring in the bottles slowly watching the plant for toxicity or deficiency. I'm not a huge fan of this method. A lot of guess work involved. I would rather use a medium that is void of nutrients and have all the control of the feeding myself instead of half my mix and half what is left in the soil.

    I believe you have at least one bottle that doesn't have nitrogen and has some phosphorus. Pick up the percentage of phosphorus in the feed if possible and lower nitrogen a little until more gets used up in the soil.

    Cannabis Phosphorus Deficiency - Symptoms & Solutions | Grow Weed Easy

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Heya! So last feeding was Monday 7/29/19, I used 1 gallon of water on each plant and only put in the calmag because I thought thats what it was. (it actually seemed to help push past the 3 days plant growth STALL)

    If phosphate deficiency is the case and I have no means of getting another bottle without anything other then phosphate in it, how should I go about feeding with what I got?

    ALSO! Would it be possible to flip these in the next 48 hours to flower without harming them too much? Should I feed them before flipping or should I flush them ?

    runoff ppm was 1900 after the calmag feed.
     

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  16. So all cal/mag is also a nitrogen supplement. The AN calmag is 4 nitro. GH is 1 which is why I buy that but you're feeding it nitro when it's nitro toxic. Drop the cal/mag.

    Feed it only bloom nutrients in a very light mix to hopefully get rid of the phosphorus deficiency and balance things out.

    Give it a good flush with ph'd water again since your runoff is so high and let it sit for a day right now first thing.

    Then come back with those bloom nutes minus any nitro in the mix. Let it bleed the rest of the excess nitro out of the medium then go back to a better balanced NPK schedule of feeding. 1:2:2 is a great ratio for cannabis growing NPK it's the lucas formula. GH's floranova bloom is 4-8-7 so very close to that. It works great as a single bottle feed but I actually like GH's maxibloom dry that is 5-15-10 better for early bloom. It's what I'm using now. The plants are loving it. 17 days from flip. 4x4 flower area.

    You have too much empty space in your tent to flip. Fill it wall to wall. Train them more wide then flip. That's how to take full advantage of the space. Can't have empty space in the canopy in good light. Going to flatten out my stretchy tops tomorrow most likely.
    IMG_1208.JPG IMG_1209.JPG
     
  17. Alright ! Thanks for the reply man.

    Let me see if I got this straight

    1.Immediately flush the system with ph (what ph?) Its generally been around 6.0 after neuts are in, also what is a good ppm to get downto? I think someone mentioned 500 runoff
    2.Only feed it the fox farm neut that has zero nitrogen but has phosphate and iron in the next couple of feeding cycles? WHEN should I add the two other bottles if thats the case?
    3. Start topping more of the plants to fill out the canopy?
     

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  18. 6.0 is fine anywhere between 5.8-6.2 for hydro feeding. I like 6.2.

    2. When the plants ask for it. (Part of becoming a good grower is learning to look at a plant and tell what it's asking for. It's fairly easy to see when you're ready to pick up more nitrogen.) They will begin to lighten in green tint especially on lower leaves. I mean overall color. Striping is a different deficiency.

    3. I gave up on topping. I prefer supercropping. IMO it's the best training method. If you use that you'll have to cut off a grocery bag full of tops before flower. No need to top a plant to make more grow sites. Just bend it. The plant makes the additional grow sites by itself.
    Super Cropping Marijuana: Simple Secret to Bigger Yields | Grow Weed Easy

    The stress can also increase potency.
     

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