Proof of God Thread

Discussion in 'Religion, Beliefs and Spirituality' started by vapeking, Jan 13, 2009.

  1. Let's hold the idea that God exists to the same standard that we hold any other idea. We don't believe in unicorns because we can't prove them. We believe in the sun because it hurts to look at it. To do anything else with the idea of God is intellectually dishonest and also.. stupid.


    In this thread, you post scientific proof that God exists.

    Let's see if we can get this going. If you do it, you do what no man in history has done and also get to convert me from being an atheist. Get to it!
     
  2. #2 Androgenicx, Jan 13, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 13, 2009
    Your assumption is that science and the dimension of visible, quantifiable, studyable matter is all that exists, and that we are capable of directly comprehending everything that exists through our 5 senses, or technology that compounds on some variation of them. The assumption is, ultimately, baseless.

    I turn my collar to all those that attempt to prove or disprove surreal phenomena. Neither can be done, there is no intellectual debate here to be honest to - it is not a matter of intellect. Those that attempt to convince others of something through evidence are lost, as are those that attempt to convince others of its non-existence. Existence is personal, private, and impermanent. To each his view of the universe from within his consciousness as he pleases, as long as he does not contradict anyone elses right to do so and live as he pleases as well.
     
  3. lol. There is no proof god exists. Why do you think religion is so controversial?
     
  4. Winning against organized religion. Belief in something underlying everything or overlaying everything, could be called "God", is not limited to religion. Personal spiritual belief of god cannot be won against, because it partakes in no battle.
     
  5. Believing in God is kind of like when you tell a child about Santa.

    "Now, honey, if you are good, a Jolly old man will bring you presents!"
    Then, when the child starts to grow up a bit and the belief in Santa fades...
    "Oh, you don't have to believe in Santa if you don't want. You just won't get any presents."
    Of course, at this point, the child will start to believe again or just pretend they do so they won't lose out on presents.

    Now, let's compare this to Xianity...

    "Now, honey, if you are good, a God will let you into heaven!"
    Then, when the child starts to grow up a bit and the belief in God seems unrealistic...
    "Oh, you don't have to believe in God if you don't want. You just won't get to go to heaven and have to spend eternal damnation in Hell."
    Of course, at this point, the child will start to believe again or just pretend they do so they won't lose out on their reward or be sent to hell.

    I've pondered on that a lot, and there are other comparisons, but I don't really want to list them all out... I know it seems like a childish response, but it's just a similarity I've noticed between santa and god.

    As for scientifically proving Christianity? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
     
  6. #7 Androgenicx, Jan 14, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2009
    He asked for proof of God not for proof of Christianity. People have fought the largest religion, Christianity, for so long, that God concept is now synonymous with the Christian faith in their minds. That is their misidentification and their illusion. All concept of God is not the Christian God. If you are referring to a Christian God, say so, referring "God" to the Christian god in every instance is incorrect terming.
     
  7. Sorry, I'll be more specific in my internet forum posts from now on.
     
  8. If you are bothering to take the time to post in a discussion, where does the assumption that you need not be specific arise? If you are not interested in contributing in quality to the discussion but replying to it anyway, it is called trolling. Are you trolling this forum?
     
  9. Does god exist? Methinks, yes.
    Does God exist? Methinks, no.
     
  10. We need to be careful not to be confused as to what non-delusional believers in a force called God actually define that force as. The very words which we use to speak don't do justice to the infinite, all encompassing non entity that English has named God.

    These atheists/agnostics operating under the Occam's Razor principle (that the believer carries the burden of proof) are forgetting one of the basic tenets of science and the scientific method - science, being verifiable only in relation to other things, does not have the capacity to prove, but only to disprove. By this token, agnosticism seems to be the only logical choice since God has as much of a chance of existing as not existing.

    The basis of a proof is it's relation to other things. Since God is everything and everything is God, there exists no outside factor by which one could quantify, qualify, or otherwise prove the existence of God.
     
  11. #13 Float to Shore, Jan 14, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2009
    IMO, God is a term that has lost the essence of its meaning largely due to the way we have began to define God and determine what characteristics he would need to have to qualify. This is because God in the Christian sense has become this omnipotent man or being that should, according to our own logic, protect the world and prevent our family members from suffering etc.... When this doesn't turn out to be the case, we say: " There is evil, the world is plagued by war and greed, where is God now??? Hmmm??? Fuck it I'm gonna call myself an atheist because all I see is hate, suffering, greed.... There's no God. I know it and can prove it.

    What we don't and can't realize is that, due to our own delusions, we cannot make claims about such a thing as God. God is everything. It is transcendence. It is the ability for all of us to have choices (despite the fact that most doors to God have been hidden from us by our upbringing, by our misunderstanding of suffering, and the role of society in destroying all that is good and emphasizing everything that separates us or makes us feel guilty and worthless. God is everything you can't explain. To say there is no God is like saying that you know everything. God is the gift of every moment to us. It is also what allows us to be so blinded and confused and oblivious to ourselves and the nature of our existence. God is to accept that some things are bigger than ourselves and that the most we can do is to try and see through our own misunderstandings and realize the perfection and opportunity inherent in every moment of every day starting right now until the end of our earthly lives.

    My biggest beef with the whole God topic is the fact that self-proclaimed atheists try and pass of the notion of God as false simply by disproving and stating the obvious and inherent flaws of the Christian God.

    I would suggest you start opening yourself up to more Eastern views of God, life, reality, etc. before you pass off the idea of God completely.

    Sorry for using the word God like a million times in that post btw.
     
  12. Fucking...exactly.
    Same idea down there...
    Hehehehe, I quoted myself.
     
  13. Another thing.....

    My experiences with salvia are sort of relevant to this discussion me thinks. On multiple occasions while spiraling around in salvia-space, I have had the feeling or intuitive thought that I was being reminded of how I should truly feel about life and that I have chosen to be alive even though I had forgotten it. For no apparent reason I get this feeling of "Oh ya that's right I totally forgot" even though I'm not exactly sure what it is. I could feel these entities working on the salvia-space in a way that I imagine that our reality is being constructed and maintained at all times. And I would get the feeling of ya now you have been reminded go and live more honestly, with confidence in what you are and what you want to do. It feels almost like my "family" is watching me and reminding me not to waste my time being self-conscious or hesitant.


    To me these feelings have a certain connectedness to God, like following one's heart, even though one has completely forgotten that this is the goal and also how to do it.
     
  14. idk if u noticed this or not but were fucking here right now
     

  15. Pay attention the words used, it might change the definition. God is religion based, god is just a guy. OP talks about God not god, so I addressed it as such. If in philosophy you are supposed to ignore the value of words then you win...

    See below:

    He gets it.
     
  16. Haha alright I can dig the use of a capital or small case "g" to indicate what relative concept of god one is referring to.

    god - universal whatever, atomic connection, consciousness, divinity, etc
    God - the idea of a "him" who presides over "us"

    Cool :)
     
  17. #19 vostibackle, Jan 14, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2009
    How do you know that a belief supported by "scientific proof" is any more valid than a belief supported by divine revelation or guesswork or any other method of gaining knowledge?

    The answer is that you've assumed that induction works. You've assumed that reality exhibits regularity-if we've observed in the past that event B always follows event A, then event B will always follow event A in the future.

    Please provide scientific proof of this assumption.

    (Obviously, you can't. So, why not hold the idea that induction works to the same standard you hold any other idea? You can't prove that induction works, so to believe in induction is intellectually dishonest and also.. stupid.)

    edit: note that I'm an atheist too, and I pretty much agree with you. But since I realized that I can't justify induction, I've started to think of scientism (as I call it) as a sort of religion (since I have to take induction on faith, really). So I try to pick on the Christians less nowadays. I still think they're nuts though.
     


  18. you brought a supernatural force, trying to be explained by "science".


    we can disregard this post, since the two dont mix.

    we got a great look at that, when the church had to apologize to darwin, since HE WAS RIGHT.
     

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