Progressively browning.

Discussion in 'Absolute Beginners' started by Sunflower, Jul 9, 2003.

  1. Hallo, well I am growing Top 44 and Northern Light, and for some reason they are browning. The leaves that are browning are not just the cotyledons, but the ones closest to the soil. The strange thing is that they are speckled with the spots, rather than the whole leaf dying.
    I fertilize regularly, am pretty sure they get enough light too.
    They are only about 3 weeks old.
    any ideas?
    thanks,
     

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  2. My first guess given what you have said (enough light, fertilized etc) would be Ph problems, you can check this easily with a ph measuring device (even one of the strips of paper will do) though be sure to check the soil at the bottom as well as the top as the PH level can be quite different if the soil is mixed poorly and contains “hot spots” (“what's a hot spot not…a good spot” – “Top Middle or Bottom, Top Middle or Bottom” *laughs*  ). It is worth taking a few tests and noting all the results.

    If this wasn't the cause my next “diagnosis” would be Phospherous deficiency. Are the stems also showing a purply tinge? This is another tell tale of a P deficiency (as well as crossed legs and lots of nervous glancing at the door). You can treat this with some high phosphorous shit, sorry I mean guano .

    If it's neither of these (and not a bug – I know nothing about creepy crawlies!) then my last hope would be Magnesium deficiency. Now this is uncommon but can happen, the signs are similar with the necrotic patches on the leaves and the fact it is starting from the bottom.

    Unoit seems to be the nutrient troubleshooting expert here so he may be able to add some insight. I would definitely check the Ph first and foremost. If nothing else it could be causing a nutrient lock out which in turn may be showing the visible sign.

    Good luck mang.

    :D

    SS
     
  3. I had that same problem during vegging...my problem was ferts to early and it looks like it may be the smae problem.like sureshot said though..check with unoit he does know his fert difficiencies.Also what kinda ferts ya using?
     
  4. Thats far too early to be fertilizing.

    Wait untill atleast 38 days to start ferting, otherwise the plants too young to take it!
     
  5. Oh yeah, just noticed that they are only three weeks old.

    *makes note to oneself to read a whole post for a change*

    Add over ferting to the list! Just under Ph. If the Ph is out then the fert is pretty likely to have caused it.

    [EDIT - 3-4 weeks is a reasonable time to START fertilizing]
     
  6. thanks, it is probably the fertilizer, although it was super diluted or something like that. I am still checking the pH, just didn't do it yet.
    the fert is like schultz 10-15-10, this stuff seemed to work for my trees and other plants, this is my first time doing anything with seedlings though

    fortunately the browning doesn't seem to be increasing, but time will tell i guess.
    thanks all
     
  7. HIGH All, far from an expert Sureshot...just been thought it a hundred times and probably a hundred more...it's what makes it All the more fun. Been reading up on Fusarium and Verticillium Wilt and it sounds so close to PH and fert problems.

    Here's what Wolfman at CW say's about it.

    First of all you need to understand the way it works. It develops himself invisibly inside the plant. It grows inside of the plant water channels, like blood runs in your veins. In order to neutralize it, the plant tries to block the water channels, reducing nute and water flow to the upper side of the plant.

    The plant effort is not 100% effective and the fungi keeps developing until he uses those same water channels to get out of the plant and infect everything near by. Understand the cycle? The plant kind of sweat it… He gets in and gets out again to continue his shitty work.

    To destroy it, you need to be able to hit him inside the plant + near the root area. But you also need to prevent him to come back to start things again. This is like white powder; it looks just like it. You can imagine powder moving with the air flows inside your grow room or house, can't you? Now imagine it's the most deadly fungi ever created by man, under lab conditions. Got it?

    Proceeding… When it develops inside the plant, it leaves marks allowing you to identify it from the outside. Look for purple marks, purple lines on the steam, purple petioles… look at how purple your petioles are, I think they're giving you a sign.

    This thing EXPLODES in flower, probably because it uses the dark to develop faster. Depending on how infected the female is, she may or may not be able to produce quality bud. If severely infected, she will start to die as soon as the stretch is over… and nothing can be done at that stage. Understand now why the plants end flowering before time? Her veins are blocked and the roots being destroyed from the inside. She reduces grow to a minimum to put all her strength into bud… wile the fungi keeps spreading inside until she collapses. Also, the fungi produces a toxin that makes the plant wilt.

    Whatever has to be done, it has to be done during Veg…. And now, I'm going to move into the “goodies”.

    You can control him using H2O2(9%) at 50% concentration, foliar spraying (it can be ordered at the local pharmacy). It will damage the plants and they will stop growing for about a week, but as long as they are in a reasonable condition, they will recover and again will start growing strong. This is probably because high H2O2 levels will invade the water channels where the fungi is, drastically reducing the level of infection. Transplanting to a fresh new mix after disinfections helps having a faster reaction.

    If I do recall well, Shantibaba from Mr.Nice mentioned 3 H2O2 disinfections in order to eliminate it. You can try to confirm with him.

    If you want to take clones, you need to disinfect the plants before, allow them to recover and only after taking the clones. Otherwise, the clones will sweat the fungi and infect the root area before the clone is rooted. Individual pots should be used in order to prevent infection.

    However, to kill it inside the plant is not enough. This thing also infects the root area and although you reduced the level of infection, she will come back over and over again. This is the kind of thing defined as “your worst nightmare”.

    You cannot use H2O2(9%) at 50% concentration near the roots, or you won't have roots anymore… it's that simple. To prevent infections you can use “Trichoderma Harzianum” fungi near the roots. It will create a shield around the root system preventing the cancer to come in. It will also work effectively as a grow/rooting booster. But when the plant is already infected, it's not enough to fight it... the infected plant produces a lot of fungi that makes “TH” to lose effectiveness fast. You need more in order to have real results.

    Go to the supermarket, chose the cleaning area, more precisely the kitchen cleaning area. In there look for “anti bacterial” liquid dish washer. The rate is 2 drops/gallon, tap water. I was informed that it should be used once a month, but it's very likely that you can do it more often, like once a week. They will not complain and the roots will remain fresh and healthy even with the fungi developing inside the plant.

    The use of both “anti bacterial” and H2O2(9%) at 50% concentration are enough for the infected plants to start coming back to health. But I don't know it it's the final solution to terminate the fungi.

    It's possible…if you use it foliar, it will be absorbed by plant cells and possibly destroying the fungi inside the plant. It seams possible because what kills the cancer may be some kind of chem inside the “anti bacterial” stuff. As far as I know, nobody tried yet… so I would be grateful if you share your future results doing this with the online community in order for me to save it as future reference.

    Use it as for the roots (2 drops/gallon) and you can also add 2ml/l H2O2(17%) to perk them up a little bit. It can be used either for veg, flower or rooting clones.


    Guideline for treatments:

    1. Clone is rooting or rooted – “anti bacterial” use
    2. Clone is growing - H2O2(9%) at 50% concentration, foliar
    3. Clone is ready to flower – H2O2(9%) at 50% concentration, foliar, wait for him to recover and transplant for the final flowering mix
    4. Clone during flower – Only “anti bacterial” use.
    5. “Trichoderma Harzianum” fungi can be used for germination, veg and flower. I believe it can be also be used foliar.


    Additional data:

    • All plants, rooms, pots and gardening tools should be disinfected with bleach at 20% or higher concentration or H2O2(9%) at 50% or higher concentration.

    • All seeds should be disinfected with Bleach at 5-10% concentration prior to germination. This kind of fungi goes attached to the seed and you need to kill it before he can start infecting soon. I've tried the concentrations suggested and had no problems,

    • I've also tried the “anti bacterial” stuff for germinating seeds, but the results have been mixed. Some seam to accept it without problems wile others exhibit complains. It's impossible for now to determine if it will be something useful.

    • Be extremely careful exchanging clones… because if you get infected ones… you'll wish you never traded anything.

    Best,

    Wolf

    We have to try and identify what the problems are before trying to fix them...so many symptons look the same and when thinking your correcting the right problem your making it worse.

    Whole here.
     

  8. That's what makes you an expert mang! IMHO.

    :D
     
  9. Yeah, Sureshot is right!

    Unoit, you underestimate what a fantastic resource you are to us keen learners.

    Growguides are very, very helpful but when we are still stuck it's great to know there are helpful and experienced people like yourself who give of there knowledge.

    And thank you for the compliment in my thread.
    You are right again (of course!), the buds on my girls are starting to thicken out nicely now!

    Unoit, we really appreciate you being around.




    Chill.
     
  10. HIGH All, reading between the lines and missed the fert your useing 10-15-10, if it's for trees it could be HIGH in acid...you should have something like 10-5-5 or 20-10-10



     
  11. High, ya'll!
    The first indication I watch for is change in the cotyledon pads. The little goodies are similar to egg yokes, which is embryo chicken food. Those pads are rich with nutrition, and are capable of photosynthesis, so a sprout should be able to grow in a completely sterile medium until it has 3-4 sets of true leaves. Eventually, the pads will begin to yellow, or wither, or dry up and fall off. Then I start with the ferts, which is usually wormcasting tea with a few drops of liquid kelp. Once you have to begin ferting, keep in mind that less is better. If you are not feeding enough, the plant will tell you by slowed growth, or yellowing of the lower leaves, and it's easily treatable. On the other hand, if you over fert, you can't tell until damage has already begun, and treatment can be frustrating and messy.
    C U...eg
     

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