Political Fact Checking Call Them Out Here...

Their only plan is to hate Trump in unison and they’re barely good at that.
Other than that, they have absolutely no plans.

Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum

 

Don't just sit there and pout, join the revolution!

Justice Democrats

 

Petulance is not a revolution

 

You are the resistance!
Are you part of the Internet forum distraction troop?


Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum

 

Agreed.

 

Walls, border security, physical barriers - these things do work.

I can't believe how little you guys over there in America look to what's going on in Europe. We've just had five years of massive migration, and there are endless case studies to learn from.

Norway built a chainlink fence with barbed wire on top of it already way back in 2015. Don't let your hatred for Trump cloud your ability to see the world clearly. Fences and dudes with guns and barking dogs do work, much as they are shitty symbols.

 

They restrain, and reduce. I'm glad that you've travelled through Europe and seen things yourself, but the overall picture, and from someone who, you know, actually lives here as opposed to only travelled, I can tell you that walls and other physical border security has made a big difference.

Walls have gone up all over Europe, especially along the southern borders, and have reduced the number of migrants considerably. We've got strict border security all the way up north, though, and yes, the chain link fence does help. Not just that alone, of course, but it's been part of what has contributed to the solution.
There's a notion that any measure must either work completely, or it's useless. No reason to build a wall, because it won't stop everyone.
Do walls and fences guarantee security? Absolutely not. But the idea that they don't work at all is unreasonable, and I find that it's often motivated by political ideology. Which I understand, a wall is symbolically dark.

Migrants jumping chain link fences has called here for even more drastic measures to keep them out - not led to the idea that border security doesn't work. The precise opposite has occured here - border security is up massively across the continent - and it has contributed to the solution.

Edit: And I think it's important to reflect - given your throwaway note on bolt cutters - that this entire situation deserves better examination. Bolt cutters do indeed cut chain link fences - but chain link fences are part of a multi-layered security structure. The fences serves to delay - cameras alert - and security personell are given time to react to and reach the location before too many people can break through. It's not an optimal solution - a tall, solid wall is preferable - but it bridges the gap of efficiency and cheaper cost.
I find that a lot of people have pre-concluded notions about this, depending on their political leanings, and not on a deeper scrutiny of the facts. This goes to many things, of course, not just the efficiency of fences.

 

Right wing rubbish. Walls don't solve anything. A robust guest working program, fair trade policies, family planning education, economic investment south of the border is the way forward.

Where in Norway is this "fence" and "dudes with guns" and "barking dogs" located exactly? Lol

 

Cutting off tax funded welfare is preferable. Let people keep their money and donate it where they please. Kinda keeps everyone else's opinions out of it and squashes the invasion of low skilled high time preference type people.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Grasscity Forum mobile app

 

I think this kind of "either you're X or you're Y" logic is bad for your health

Not everyone in the rest of the world is laughing, btw, tho that might be what your late night TV tells you. Speaking from personal experience in Lithuania, they love Trump over there, because he's not trying to start a war with Russia, where Lithuania will be one of the battlegrounds. As a Norwegian, I agree with that.

Things are not so black and white, man. And either way, antagonizing Trump-supporters needlessly by calling them idiots like this (since most of them obviously aren't billionaires) is really bad strategy considering that you lost to these people. I think if you want someone else to win in 2020, as I do, you should try a different tactic than the same mockery and anger that Trump uses. Can't tell Trump and anti-Trump people apart when you talk like that you know man

 

I didn't lose to those people. I'm Canadian but what that clown does down there affects the hell out of us up here so we laugh too then cry in our beers.

Maybe Lithuania is happy with him but that's what, 0.1% of the worlds population? Not a very good representation of the bulk of the world's view of Trump. His ignorance knows no bounds and he seems proud of it.

Rake the forests like Finland to prevent forest fires! Why didn't we think of that simple solution decades ago. Who's going to do it with all the Mexicans turfed out?

That's just one example of the stupid things he says about everything.

I never called anyone an idiot. I gave them options to decide for themselves. The majority of his base are the uneducated he relates too so well tho. The rednecks, bigots and down right thick as a brick types flock to his rallies and believe the lies and hatred he spouts as fact.

 

Hm. Sure, again, I don't disagree with all of what you say. Let me try to make my point with a different angle, here.

From my perspective, if one is really against Trump, and dislikes him, then what one desires most is to be rid of him. To see someone better take his place, yes? This is the basic premise. If you're against Trump, then you want him replaced. The next step then is to consider the field of methods to get rid of Trump. Tactics and strategies to victory.

On the list of strategies is mockery, debasing and dehumanizing supporters of Trump. Such as in your extremely judgemental tirade against 'the uneducated'. I understand you feel righteous in this move, but to the Trump supporter, you just come off as an ultra-elitist here, which is exactly who they see as the bad guy. You can try to sneak away from calling Trump supporters idiots, but you're the idiot if you think idiot or billioinaire is a choice, and I think we both know what you're avoiding saying. Calling them idiots, is, strategically, not wise. See Clintons 'deplorables' commentary, or ask any Trump supporter how being insulted like this makes them feel. We have evidence on how this primal tactic works, now. They become defensive, and dedicated. Yes? It's poor strategy. Similar moveset has gone on in Europe - the harder you dehumanize the right wing, the stronger it grows.
Not only do these antagonistic tactics not work in helping you win, they actually work against you by the way you come off - as someone no better than Trump!

Reconsider - if you truly are against Trump - how you conduct yourself. I know it's difficult to take the level-headed approach to solving political issues, but there's plenty of evidence of it working out, whereas the name-calling is largely anti-productive.

Now, not everyone is in this state of mind. I have found that there's a subset of the people who are against Trump who don't genuinely desire to be rid of him. They enjoy hating him, yes? It's a good feeling to mock, there's a circle of people who get kicks out of one-upping each other on the insulting and debasing of the Trump supporters, it's a rush of righteous got-em energy, yes? I think this is an unhealthy place to be, not saying you are, but it certainly is damaging to the cause of having Trump replaced, given the evidence.

 

In the regard to conflict with Russia, I was referring to Clinton vs. Trump. It's already starting to fade in the stampeding American political zeitgeist, but for a time, antagonism towards Russia was off the charts in the American left. For a long time - and I still see traces of it - I couldn't tell the difference between how the American left was talking about Russia vs. how the American right used to talk about Iraq. Exact same media antagonism barrage, the new enemy. You even express a bit of this sentiment yourself - America will never be Russia's allies. And why not? Norway shares a border with these guys, as does Lithuania. Both of those countries are bordered by Russia. If you guys invade (speaking of power hungry nuts) - as you have done with so many other places - then our homes, where we raise our families, will be the battleground. And we've seen how many caskets that produces.
Hence, the peacebroker seems the better option for us, compared to the Clintonian warhawk and the constant hatepropaganda in the CNNs and MSNBCs of America. Can you at least see that, from our point of view?

And you're right about Obama, no conflict with Russia there. He behaved towards Putin like Trump does today. I liked Obama, and I liked that part of his foreign policy.

 

Hey Rat, I was wondering...are you one of those smart educated Canadians or one of the toothless uneducated trailer boys that get'er done?