Okay, I am an atheist/agnostic that is trying to better educate myself with religion. I have heard and seen many people that attack atheists because they think that they are trying to attack them. Firstly everything I say is not a personal attack on a individual but a question or a statement that I hope you can THINK about with some form of logic, critical thinking and standards of evidence. From my experience as a scientist. There is overwhelming evidence that we did evolve from a common ancestor with chimpanzees. There is overwhelming evidence that evolution is a fact (now please, before you comment, please learn the definition of a "theory"). There is also overwhelming evidence that the world is 4.54 billions years old and that the universe is 13.72 billion years old. As I stated before I am not attacking anyone personally or any single religion. I just hope that some logic, critical thinking and standards of evidence can be taken into consideration. Please do not post personal attacks on this thread (its just not cool). I hope to learn something and I hope that some of you may learn something. If you have any questions I will be happy to answer them. Please help me learn why.
C'mon man it's pretty obvious by now, I can tell you're just looking for an argument here. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iMmvu9eMrg]Why We Believe in Gods - Andy Thomson - American Atheists 09 - YouTube[/ame]
That is certainly not the case. how can I truly understand something until i have been educated on the subject. I would like to know peoples reasoning on this subject as i find it very interesting. I clearly stated that i am not looking to personally attack people. I would like a academic argument on this matter. I have heard from the likes of Sam Harris and Dan Dennett and i can understand psychological and philosophical reasoning's for belief within a society but I would like to learn more about individual reasons. Is it wrong to try and educate myself?
Idk man, it seems like he's coming across pretty genuine in his interest. I too, am an atheist. However at school some Christian guys were talking to me, they were conducting a campus survey and asked me if I had the time to answer their questions and I did, and we talked for a bit. For the record these guys were pretty nice, weren't trying to hate on atheism just explaining their views, which I was fine with. One of them said his religion brought order and meaning to his life, he said he grew up in a Christian household and it was more so forced upon him growing up, and when he got into college he was finally able to escape that. Once in college, he was doing fine without religion, but noticed a hole in his life he said, he felt he could religion helped bring order into his life as well. The other guy was a bit arrogant, and asking questions like "How do you explain emotions? Personalities? Is it really believable that we all came from a single celled organism?" Stuff like that, I started ignoring him after he got worked up from me saying specific parts of the scientific explanation, such as abiogenesis. I felt the other guy was a lot more rational than him, so spent most of the time talking to him.
Cool thanks for that dissec, It is a shame that i don't come across more theists like the one you mentioned that was "rational" (please don't take that the wrong way, I'm not calling theists irrational) Its just in my experience that I have come across more that a like the other guy you talked about. I'm hoping that there are some people that are Buddhist or practice Hinduism (or anything that inst to do with Catholicism) could join in. I would like to know more of your stance on this. The vast majority of the people i talk to are catholic and it would be good to get a broad sense on what your thoughts are.
I agree with Dissec.. I think religion gives people comfort and a sense of unity, much like science can do for people.
When I think of "religion" I am including all cultures and traditions, from Hinduism, Buddhism, Sufism, Christianity etc., not just American evangelicalism. I personally believe in Pantheism, where "God" is not some separate entity. For me, "God" represents the collective whole of All in the universe. It is the underlying principle which binds everything together, which things are created from and destroyed unto. Nature and God are one and the same. Everything shines forth with divinity and pure Being. Religious history seems to have unfolded through a series of divine messengers, each of whom established a religion that was suited to the needs of the time and the capacity of the people. These messengers have included Abraham, the Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad, etc. Each religion believes that when humanity needs it the most the divine will become manifest as Human again; call it the second coming of Christ, or the unbroken lineage of Buddhas, or Avatars. These figures have basically all had the same message, and that is one of unity and love. Eastern tradition tends to differ from Western in many respects, but fundamentally this is what they are attempting to inform people of. The divinity and Oneness of all things, and the interdependent web of Being we are intrinsically apart of. If there is no selfishness, there can only be selflessness.
Thanks for that weed:myantidrug! Cheers for your insight! So would you be more spiritual then theist or do you still believe in a deity? Do you practice any particular religion or are you just all about people being good to each other, which most religions, for the most part try to get across? sorry for all the questions, just trying to get an understand of where your coming from.
To put it as simply as possible: when I am fully engaged in my spiritual practice, things in life just fall into place. When I am not, things fall apart. I have been through this cycle my entire life, and the observation has always been the same. Now, of course, you could pick this apart and say it's all coincidence. I don't think it is, given what I have experienced in my life. When I am actively seeking to turn my desire to selfishly receive into a desire for selfless bestowal the quality of my life improves ten fold. It's no secret that part of this method is all psychological, rather than supernatural. Us kabbalists have recognized it for centuries.
Why do I believe in God? As simple as I can put it is because I do not wish to just shut down like a computer as science tells. For some reason I just feel like there has to be something more to this. That we do not know as much as we think we do. There has to be a reason for being a good person in this world- if not, why would I care? If my brain just simply shut down, why should I care if I kill my parents or anything because they are simply just shutting down like I will. It does not matter how much wrong you do, because we would all end up the same. Why experience life and not be able to learn anything from it? When my life has ended I believe I will have learned something greater than myself and I will finally be at peace with the answers I am given. You don't necessarily have to believe in a "god" or anything, just simply something higher than yourself. Knowing that your life does not end here, because there is much more to learn and experience. Life is very short and I know impacting others is a purpose of life, but I hope my positive impressions lead me to a happier peaceful place. I just cannot wrap my mind around nothing happening and to me, there has to be something more that we cannot yet and maybe will never be able to explain.
Thanks for your thoughts dude. Just a couple of things I would like to share. I think empathy and compassion and many other thought processes prevent me from doing wrong/bad things. I dislike the feeling of betrayal so I try not to do that to others, because they will feel the same feeling I do. I do not like the feeling of pain, therefore I don't like to inflict it on others. I think your point is valid, but i hope you can put some thought into this, Just because we (my personal opinion) are going no where once we die, this doesn't mean that we can do whatever we want regardless of the repercussions. To accept Jesus as my lord, I can then be forgiven for any sins that i have committed. If I were forgiven for my sins regardless of what they are and I can live eternally in the kingdom of god in the afterlife because those sins were forgiven. What prevents me from doing wrong in my life as i live it today, if all my sins can be forgiven regardless of what they are? I hope you can just see this as a serious question, not an attack on you or your faith. I assume you are catholic I'm sorry if i got that wrong. Please correct anything that i have got wrong Cheers for the post
Thanks for sharing. I have not encountered anyone of your denomination before. Do you still follow the old testament, or is it something similar? i Would like to learn more about your religion. I think I might do some reading on it. Is what you stated the general concept that practising kabbalists follow or is it something you have developed further from what Kabbalistic traditions are normally? Cheers for introducing me into something different. Peace
[quote name='"DaChemist"']Okay, I am an atheist/agnostic that is trying to better educate myself with religion. I have heard and seen many people that attack atheists because they think that they are trying to attack them.[/quote] take a look at my thread "bible pushing puppet" just a good example of how ignorant and blind a lot of people are towards other religions/theories of creation. people who have blind devotion in faith are blind to everything, even facts. this woman hopped in a convo she "thought was attacking her beliefs" even though it was on a friend of her son and daughters Facebook page where if she didn't agree she could have ignored it, but took it to heart and fucking raged on it.
I believe that the whole vibrating One, all matter everywhere at once, can be realized by the individual. Some call it enlightenment, or a grace of God, but I wouldn't consider it a Deity; it surpasses all forms of discursive thought, transcends any qualities you could assign to it. It is omnipresent and all encompassing. All material forms are existing within Brahman (if you wanted to give it a title). Physical objects are like waves in an ocean. Distinct in themselves but inseparable from the whole. Hinduism views this "God-without-form" as an absolute principle of existence, not some man in the heavens. I believe that all religions are attempting to describe this, even if they use different terms or present it in different, less clear ways. The benefit of this realization, (that all things and all people are manifestations of the divine; collectively One) is that the natural relationship between people and the world would have to be one of love. Everything is perfect within the Tao. I don't subscribe to any ritualistic practices besides meditating and praying for all beings. I would consider my beliefs to fall somewhere between advaita vedanta and mahayana buddhism, with some native american shamanism thrown in. "Learn to look with an equal eye upon all beings, seeing the one Self in all." - Srimad Bhagavatam "Troubled or still, water is always water. What difference can embodiment or disembodiment make to the Liberated? Whether calm or in tempest, the sameness of the Ocean suffers no change." - Yogavasistha "Having realized his own self as the Self, a man becomes selfless; and in virtue of selflessness he is to be conceived as unconditioned. This is the highest mystery, betokening emancipation; through selflessness he has no part in pleasure or pain, but attains absoluteness." - Maitrayana Upanishad "Talk as much philosophy as you please, worship as many gods as you like, observe all ceremonies, sing devoted praises to any number of divine beings - liberation never comes, even at the end of a hundred aeons, without the realization of the Oneness of Self." - Shankara "When is a man in mere understanding? I answer, "When a man sees one thing separated from another." And when is a man above mere understanding? That I can tell you: "When a man sees All in all, then a man stands beyond mere understanding." - Eckhart "One Nature, perfect and pervading, circulates in all natures. One Reality, all-comprehensive, contains within itself all realities. The one Moon reflects itself wherever there is a sheet of water, and the moons in the waters are embraced within the one Moon. The Dharma-body (the Absolute) of all the Buddhas enters into my own being. And my own being is found in union with theirs. The Inner Light is beyond praise and blame; like space it knows no boundaries, yet it is even here, within us, ever retaining its serenity and fulness. It is only when you hunt for it that you lose it; you cannot take hold of it, but equally you cannot get rid of it, and while you can do neither, it goes on its own way. You remain silent and it speaks; you speak, and it is dumb; the great gate of charity is wide open, with no obstacles before it." - Yung-chia Ta-shih Much love man, I hope that helped in some way, take care.
Kabbalah is nothing other than Jewish mysticism. The particular branch I was raised in is called Hasidic Judaism, and is one of the strictest sects of Judaism today. I no longer consider myself a Hasid. I align more closely with Reform Judaism, which is just a nice way of saying kabbalah matters, but the commandments found in the Old Testament only matter if they enrich your spiritual path. While a Jew should do his/her best to keep the commandments, the Creator isn't looking down shaking His head when we fumble a bit (or a lot, as has been my case). The idea that man must overcome his selfish desire to receive (which comes from the animal soul) and change it into a selfless desire to bestow (which comes from the neshamah, or the soul that we have which is a part of G-d) is perhaps the most important idea in Kabbalah. We believe that the Creator went through such a reformation of desires, which resulted in the Big Bang (it obviously gets a lot deeper than that; the mechanics of it and all) and because of this we too must correct our desires to realize our Divine potential.
No, not catholic at all xD I used to go to Catholic school but they're so corrupt I'd never associate myself with them. I don't really like to specify my religion because they've all been corrupted. I just believe in God and follow the ten commandments and read the bible. But back to the convo: I know you're not attacking me and I hope you know I'm not attacking you either. The bible says you have to be truly have to be sorry for the bad things you did to get into heaven. However, I do not believe any sort of hell is eternal, just like a purgatory until you are truly sorry for the bad things you did. However I would like to ask you a question. How do you go on living a happy life just believing when you die nothing is going to happen to you? We're two different people so I don't know how you feel about this but if I had that view I would have a hard time caring about anything because it would not matter in the end. And sadly I'd be really depressed.