Please advise- best DIY QB and config for larger room?

Discussion in 'Lighting' started by Bundler, Aug 7, 2019.

  1. Hi, thanks in advance for any advice, I haven't grown in about 5 years, so the QB tech is all new to me. I'm in the early stages of designing a larger grow area, not exactly sure on the dimensions yet, but i'm estimating a 12x10 Scrog canopy( four 5x6 scrog nets with four flood tables on casters). So here are my main questions right now-

    1-My best option for a larger grow is definitely QBs and NOT HPS? I think i've established this already, but some reassurance would be nice.

    2-I think i want to order QBs from alibaba, most likely Kingbrite as they seem to be the highest praised.

    3-I think i want to do the DIY thing, save some money and have more control over the arrangement of the QBs.

    4-I think i want to get boards that have deep red and uv, and i want to get the biggest/highest watt board they make. So what is that model # exactly?? There are many options and i'm very confused on what i actually need.

    5-I'm unsure if i want to drive all six panels with 1 600w driver, or use 2 480w driving 3 panels each. Or possibly even something else, this just what i've seen suggested so far.

    6-How many QBs, and in what configuration would be best for a 12x10 space? Also keep in mind i will be utilizing light movers and a scrog so i can get the lights very close to the canopy hopefully. I am hoping i can do this with a total of 24 QBs, split into four 6 panel assemblies. I want to keep it as close to 2400 watts on the lighting as possible, so im hoping i can really optimize the spread without sacrificing any weight per wattage.

    7- I've seen diy frames that space the panels out more than the prefabs that are sold, and there seems to be agreement that spreading them out is better. So what is the best arrangement, any links to a build guide etc?

    8- Maybe I'm totally off base here, this is just what i've come up with after a couple days of research, so thanks again for any help getting me on the right path!
     
  2. You already know what you want, contact KingBrite and ask them these questions. The DIY frame... check out @Steakbomb's work, can't get much better than that.
    Also, a general rule of thumb is 30W/sqft, so 2500 is too low, although some of that space is for walking I presume. Map out your room prior to ordering anything and post it! Welcome to GC @Bundler .
     
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  3. Big thanks. My concern would be trusting a seller not to upsell me etc, I really am confused on what exactly i need. I feel like ive seen QBs w/ far red and UV that range from $40-$90 and i dont know enough to know what the diff is. But i will contact them and see what they say.

    So using the 30W/sqft i get an 8x10 for 2400W, i guess what i was hoping is that by using a light mover + better penetration i'd be able to squeeze a little extra out around the perimeter. But that'll just have to be something i experiment with, I've done it in the past and had positive results. Basically im just planning to oversize my nets a bit so if i can really pack em in, at least ill have the option.

    I will keep updating, maybe start a growlog, like say, ive been out of it for awhile and its allll different now, so i need to double check myself before i advise anyone to spend $$. Thanks again!!! :)
     
  4. I have no problem with KingBrite selling you the proper gear. They are a reputable company, so no worries getting ripped off.

    no light mover, just get what you need. Its not bad to just 'start' with some and add later. Adding strips UNDER the canopy, or around the sides increases the yield and THC content of the plants, but you don't know where/what/when until you are doing it. Also, adding a few QB96s which are well priced in certain spots later on is another option.
    make sure to check my scrog thread out.
    yes please do, and send me a shout when its up n going.

    again though, I would use like powerpoint or paint to map out the room like you want it. I have 4x4 scrog cages I like to work around in my 10x12 room, but I don't fill the entire room up with light, just above the plants, so its less space. Unless you are doing 'sea of green' methods, don't use the entire room dimensions, you need walking/working room and that does not need to be directly illuminated. Also consider the wiring, are you running 220V? might be a good investment to add a fuse to the fuse box and run some wiring the the power supplies. I placed mine in the same room, kinda wish I didn't to keep it cooler in the summer, but there's more winter here than summer so it'll be ok.

    Also, take a look @StickyBudHound's room. I think he is working in a similar space as we are and you might want to follow his example.
     
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  5. Cool, i will check out all these links and do some more reading :)
     
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  6. #6 Sc00byD00bie, Aug 7, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
    1-My best option for a larger grow is definitely QBs and NOT HPS? I think i've established this already, but some reassurance would be nice.
    Yes.

    2-I think i want to order QBs from alibaba, most likely Kingbrite as they seem to be the highest praised.
    No comment

    3-I think i want to do the DIY thing, save some money and have more control over the arrangement of the QBs.
    Good choice, you will save tons of money, plus its fun.

    4-I think i want to get boards that have deep red and uv, and i want to get the biggest/highest watt board they make. So what is that model # exactly?? There are many options and i'm very confused on what i actually need.
    I see these boards with UV starting to pop up now, personaly I think it's a mistake to put UV on the same board unless they are on a seperate circuit that can be controlled independently from the main lights.

    5-I'm unsure if i want to drive all six panels with 1 600w driver, or use 2 480w driving 3 panels each. Or possibly even something else, this just what i've seen suggested so far.
    You should figure out which pannels you are getting first but two 480's will get you more light.

    6-How many QBs, and in what configuration would be best for a 12x10 space? Also keep in mind i will be utilizing light movers and a scrog so i can get the lights very close to the canopy hopefully. I am hoping i can do this with a total of 24 QBs, split into four 6 panel assemblies. I want to keep it as close to 2400 watts on the lighting as possible, so im hoping i can really optimize the spread without sacrificing any weight per wattage.
    2400watts will be a bit on the low side for the space you are planning, is there a reason for this limit? Personaly if I had put a limit like that I would adjust the grow space to fit that limit. With quantum boards the sweet spot for growth effeciency is around 30-40 watts /sqf so for 2.4k watts that means no more than 80sqf. Stretching the same amount of power into 120 isnt going to net you higher yield, light movers or not in the end you get the same amount of photons on the plant. If you cant use more power I say just do two 5x6 beds instead of four. Or better yet, two 4x10 raised beds if you havnt built them yet.

    - I've seen diy frames that space the panels out more than the prefabs that are sold, and there seems to be agreement that spreading them out is better. So what is the best arrangement, any links to a build guide etc?
    This depends a bit on your grow style. If the lights are to be hanged high you want to spread them out because there will be overlap. The higher they are the more overlap. But if you plan to keep them close to the canopy you might want to mount them close. I can tell you from my grow since I grow SOG I like to keep the light low and run it soft, but I use more pannels than I need so my light pretty much coveres the whole canopy evenly.
     
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  7. I personally would go with bava alibaba HLG550 knock offs for a large area
    I use the Bava HLG65 knock offs and they are great
     
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  8. after what I learned today, I don't think the UV is going to do much, but maybe. UV chip are very expensive.
     
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  9. I have a similar space.
    I run 2 4x8 flood and drain tables.
    Soon going to have 9 fotop boards per table.
    Running 3 boards per hlg 480 48a drivers. Maxed they pump out 600 watts per driver.
     
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  10. Thanks everyone, Im taking a trip over the weekend and need to put this all on the backburner. I'll be back on monday with some proper replies. :)
     
  11. okeee, I've been reading and reading and... i think i've gotten a better grasp on things, which of course brings about even more questions. This will be a multi post reply so it doesn't get to cluttered and i can stand a chance of actually organizing the jumbled mess of thoughts that is my mind right now lol.

    So i am gathering that the most important leds to look for on QBs are the lm301b/h or lm561c full spectrum, and the 660nm? If the 660nm isn't that big of an advantage and if the lm561c diode is good enough, i could save $10 per board, and ordering 50 some boards,so this could be a nice cost saver depending on overall production gain. So how much of a production boost is gained from the 660nm? These are the 2 boards i'm comparing on kingbrite, thoughts, opinions, better options or better prices anywhere else?
    2018 Kingbrite Hot sell 288pcs led quantum board lm561c pcb, View led quantum board lm561c pcb, Kingbrite Product Details from Shenzhen Kingbrite Electronics Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com

    2019 Kingbrite Qb288 V2 Samsung Lm301b 660nm Quantum Board For Led Grow Light - Buy Qb288 V2,Samsung Lm301b 660nm,Quantum Board Product on Alibaba.com
     

  12. Thanks for the full reply, much appreciated.

    4- see above reply regarding UV and spectrum.

    5- Okay, im pretty much sold on 2 480s vs 1 600. The cost comes out very similar given i order enough 480s to get a discount, which i will. So with that the cost of the 2x 480s is only $30 more than the single 600, so not bad. Now my main question is about efficiency and longevity of the boards. If i run 3 qbs on a 480 maxed, will they burn out far faster than say 4 qbs on a 480 running with less wattage per board. People also seem to suggest this as a safety feature, so if 1 board fails, the other 3 can still handle the load without damage. So id love to hear more detailed thoughts on this. Also, there's a possibility i won't be able to source the 480s as cheap as id like, and if not, the 600s become much more cost effective( almost half the cost if i could use less of them ). What would be a good setup (how many boards) with the 600 if i had to go that route?

    6- I'm talking about capturing photons that would otherwise be lost on the edge of the perimeter. This is a scrog/sog technique that involves multiple plants and training the scrog into a slight bowl. So if my light footprint/flood table is a 4x5, i build my nets 5x6. So no black magic, just an attempt at extreme efficiency. Though what i am wondering is if i could squeeze another 6 inches out because a) with cooling i can get the lights very close to the canopy b)with qbs its very ez to control and optimize the spread c)Ive never used nor been an advocate for light movers, but with leds there does seem to be better science behind the claims, ie because you can lower the lights so much, some say they get 6'' or less off the canopy with adequate cooling, it seems advantageous to move the lights around a bit to avoid any cooking.My tentative plan as of now is moving the lights 12-16'' off center, i feel like this, added with the other efficiency boosts, could give an extra 6'' to the canopy perimeter. Also pretty sure i can do the whole room with one mover, so thats a very small cost if it really does live up to any of the hype. And like i said, some of the hype seems valid to me, but i will definitely investigate more. I still have concerns about their reliability etc. But also, as long as space isn't a big issue, i lose nothing by making my nets a little over sized, if my plan doesn't work out, i just end up with a little bit of unused net around the edge.

    Im building 4x5 raised drain tables on casters from lumber and pond liners, so ill be able to push them together / pull them apart as needed for access.

    Thanks again! :)
     
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  13. Thanks much for input and reply!
    Please see above "5" reply to Scooby, as its on this issue. So you are using the 48a driver with no dimming correct? Pretty much same questions as above about safety, efficiency and longevity running at max watts. Maybe its worth it cuz qbs so cheap.. burn em out in a year or 2 and replace maybe best strategy for medium-large scale op...
     
  14. you can get the ones with the red Osrams, samsung has them out too now, but that's not UV, that's just (photo) red. UV is on the other side of the spectrum and they say UV, but they aren't talking UVB. UVB chips cost a lot and are like 1% efficient. There's so many boards nowadays, I like the ones that are adding a bit of 730nm, but really all that stuff, you can buy supplemental lighting strips to augment and light up darker corners.

    You can run these lights pretty close and back off the power, but you lose spread. but that's ok too.
     
  15. Thanks I'm checking out Bava now, right off the bat their boards are $1 more and you get 12 more leds...lol maybe thats good? lol I'll check out the specs, at least now i have 2 similar boards to compare.
     
  16. Should i get the boards w/ the 660nm or use supplemental for that also? Yeah i'm not sure how far/close ill run these, just really like the fact they are so versatile and easy to configure i'll be able to dial things in 100% at some point.
     
  17. HLG sells a 660/730 supplemental board for not too much, so you can add these later. You know Bundler, the most active thread considering lights (other than the HLG brand) can be found here
    alternative to HLG's quantom boards... the supplier!

    I'm linking it for you to take a peek at what others are purchasing. I would start at the end of that thread and go backwards though. KingBrite is reputable though, so I would get their modern lights and go from there.
     
  18. If i run 3 qbs on a 480 maxed, will they burn out far faster than say 4 qbs on a 480 running with less wattage per board. People also seem to suggest this as a safety feature, so if 1 board fails, the other 3 can still handle the load without damage.
    Basically the softer (less watts) you drive these boards the more effecient they are (more photons per watt). Don't quote me but I also would think it will prolong the life of the boards. On the other hand, these boards are fairly cheap and new and better LED tech comes out all the time. Bottom line, you will probably want to upgrade them long before they wear out.

    some say they get 6'' or less off the canopy with adequate cooling, it seems advantageous to move the lights around a bit to avoid any cooking.
    That does make sense. Woud be interesting to see how it turns out.
     
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  19. The bava boards have both 561 and 301 mixed on them and cheap
     
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  20. I run a cheap burple board with each set of hlgs for red, nano, IR
     
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