pH problems

The pH of the runoff does matter. This is the most onerous part of growing in soil with bottled fertilizers. Salts rapidly build up in the soil, pushing down the pH of the medium. Nutrient lockout will occur unless corrective action is taken. Usually, the first thing you see is a calcium or magnesium deficiency. So, you monitor the pH of your runoff and when it starts to approach or cross below 6.5, you take corrective action.

The way you pull up the pH of the medium is you periodically flush the soil with lots of plain water.

When I grew in soil, I would pH adjust to 7.0 an amount of water equal to three times the volume of the container and run it through the medium. If the plant was in a 3 gallon container then I would use 9 gallons of water. Then I'd check the pH of the last bit of runoff from that laborious ritual (and sometimes cry). And it was a ritual, one which was religiously repeated at all too frequent intervals.

The sweet range for your soil's pH is between 6.5 and 6.8. Since every feeding is going to contribute to the salt buildup that is destined to drive the soil pH down below that sweet range, I would always pH adjust the feedings to at least 6.8, the top of the range. Once I saw the pH of the runoff start its march downward (sometimes it marched; sometimes it plummeted; it never drifted), I'd start adjusting the feedings to 7.0. I'd also make sure to water for generous runoff at every feeding/watering in the hope of flushing out some of the salts deposited by the previous meal. It was a continuous battle always fought to a draw. I don't miss that about soil grows.

 

i hate to disagree with alatar, after all the time taken with the generous post/info. but jenny, the ph of your medium really isn't important. UNLESS, all else in your grow is fine, and your plant is displaying issues (that could be associated with the ph) and the medium ph is out of whack.
first, and most important when talking about the ph of your medium. are the plants displaying any issues that could be associated with a ph problem? if not, you're golden. just because your run-off ph isn't what you want it, or think it should be, is no reason to go messing with it. (again, this is only if everything else is ok, blah, blah, blah...) so why is it not important, and how do you make it not important? here is the key. properly ph "everything" you put in/on your plant!! second, you have to ensure that you get a good amount of run-off "every" time you feed/water. 10-15% is fine! this will act as a mini-flush and wash out built up nutes/salts from your medium. this also eliminates the need for flushing altogether, until your harvest/final flush, unless you're organic, and have planned your medium for no flush... i could go into more detail, but i think (unless you're high like me) you prob. get the idea.... peace

 

Ph is Very important, don't know what planet growpot was on when he posted his info . Every time you water your plant with nutes your more than likely lowering the Ph of the soil. Say the tap water is ph7 and you've watered say 5 times with added nutes without phing your runoff. Then you get your hand on a Ph pen, you will proberly have a low reading, meaning lockout. Not good at all. If cart afford Ph pen, go buy cheep testing kit from grow shop or local pet shop under the fish department.

 

planet earth, lol!!! my post is pretty self explanatory, and easy to understand. and if i read the op's post correctly, he/she proved it her/him self. i believe there were no problems with the grow, but the mediums run-off ph wasn't what it was wanted to be. so it was a successful grow, but the run-off was out of range. who cares? "chasing" your ph when the plant isn't displaying any problems (leaf type issues) is always a mistake. don't respond to a problem that hasn't manifested itself.

 

That's good stuff, calcium magnesium carbonate. It is alkaline. Your cal/mag needs will be covered. You don't want to add too much, though, because being too alkaline can cause problems too.

 

I do something very similar. I never check the ph of my soil and its fine. I add nutes/supplements. Ph the whole thing to 7. I water will theres significant run off. I use airpot so get pretty good drainage well very good drainage.

I throughly saturate the pot till a fair amount of water comes out. I find by using more water then I need it balances out my soil as well. It does use some more water and probably more nutes then I need since its a larger container but I Never have any issues with my soil and plants are healthy as a champ.

 

thank you, this is exactly what i'm talking about!!! i know for some people, this just don't sound right. but ph everything correctly, and the run-off ph don't mean diddly.... i'm not saying the other method doesn't work, but why go through all the hassle, if it's not necessary???

 

Since I know you are really just looking for a way to eliminate pH problems I will share my current experience.

The pH balance of your soil is directly related to the well being of the microbes it contains. Chemical, non-organic, fertilizers will not benefit the microbial community. They can actually create an inhospitable environment.

A sudden drop of pH in the runoff from an organic system is a good sign that these beneficial bacteria are suffering a major die-off. Many new growers make the mistake of dumping bad stuff into their soil thinking it will improve the growth of the plant. This is misguided and does more harm than good, most of the time.

A proper organic program, utilizing either bottled organic nutrients and/or aact and botanical teas, in a quality potting soil completely eliminates the need for the organic gardener to worry about the pH of their system. Weakly bonded organic acids will produce a misleadingly low solution pH, do not adjust them. These weak bonds will break down once introduced to the media and stabilize where it needs to be.

Recently I have built my soil mixtures around a coco peat base. Coco has the benefit of being very pH stable. It will naturally buffer the media to the right level, as well as improving the air:water ratio and offering a wonderful "foothold" for the microbes to survive in the pores of the coco fiber.

Try a mixture of 25% coco 15% worm castings 10% compost and 50% perlite for your indoor soil mix (additionally you could add small amounts of kelp meal, alfalfa meal, neem cake meal, azomite, glacial rock dust, oyster shell, and/or Epsom salt). Supplement the system regularly with nutrition from nutrient teas. I have been using General Organics BioThrive Grow and Bloom in a similar mixture with great success and I highly recommend them to people who are not looking to brew teas for several days indoors.

The bottom line is that pH in organics shouldn't ever be an issue if the microbial population is healthy and well maintained. If there is an issue with the pH in soil then the wrong thing to do is dump in more bicarbonates to try and bring it up. The right thing is to address the media and the bacteria it depends on to break down nutrition so that it is available to the plant for uptake. Hydroponics does depend on pH control because there are no microbes to do the balancing act for us.

It's a tricky question. In many ways pH control doesn't matter despite being an important part of gardening. In other ways it is definitely worth being aware of, even if an issue is not present yet, because it can take 4-7 days for the issues to appear and another 4-7 days for the resolution to be effective. Catching an issue in the runoff before it is a visible problem on the plant can save time, reduce stress to the plant, and improve harvests day for day. Keep good records and look for patterns in one grow to the next. Never make a knee jerk reaction until you know what you are seeing and how to fix it. This takes time and experience to gain the insight required to effectively interpret runoff data and tailor your programs around it.

With organics though, especially coco based mixes with General Organics... PH ain't no thing but a chicken wing.

 

I havent Ph'd in over a year and havent had an issue since i stopped bothering with it! Sunshine advanced #4 soiless mix is the shit! ran FF in it and now CYCO and never find a need to ph!
PS, how did the OG finish up Jenny?

 

Great minds think alike

How I look at my soil its simply a suspension for the roots. Really anything could be since you can grow plants by spraying a mist on the roots, in water etc. So when I water more then I need Im essentially flushing out everything and the only thing I have in it is what I put in it. The soil is just there to hole the root base down.

Not sure if that would work with a normal pot but a airpot easily. In 30 min in my tub there dry and i through back into the tent.

So like for myself a 1 gallon airpot would be watered with 1 gallon of water with nutrients.

My water is PH 7 and Ive done this method for quite sometime. I like things to be easy. The less steps the better and this is about as easy it gets. I have not had a PH issue in years.

 

...imho, pH wouldn't be an issue if you kept your soil organic, once you start pumping those synthetic salts in there, you kill the microherd by dehydration...then, you are basically growing hydroponics but in a medium that isn't too suitable....you can do it, absolutely!...but why?...If your going to grow in soil, learn organics...keep the synthetics for hydroponics...just my $.02 ...good luck bro.

 

Not all of grow organic nor have a interest in it.

 

if I am going to pH the water, I mix it with compost using a whisk and sieve the particles out before watering the plant.. a 1-5 ratio of compost-water worked well for me.. This has been beneficial to seedlings and sensitive plants I hav seen... other wise I add the compost to the surface of the container and use the straight tap water... "pH Perfect" and a 30lb bag of compost only costs 9.99 (if it's fair deal slimy airy stuff with lots of worms in it)

BTW SCNS I took your advice last month and went out and got the small boy hydrofarm catalytic carbon filter... I attached it to my garden faucet and it works nice I think!

 

Did you mean SCMC hope2toke?
Either way, that's really cool. My water is super hard right now but I am hoping for a wet winter to clean up the well.

For pH adjusting I like to use Fulvic Acid as a pH down but I have been hearing a lot about citric acid crystals recently and they probably work too. I like to use potassium silicate in my hydroponic and soilless solutions, and it is a very effective pH up. Dyna Gro protekt is a far better product than any bicarbonate pH up.

 

I've been using that lately, only because I saw AskEd using it and I ape his actions as best I can, which is not to claim I do it well, but I learned some time ago, after a lot of trial an error, that this strategy of dancing with Ed's shadow was my best shot when it came to growing cannabis. So, Ed uses Pro-tekt, I use Pro-tekt. I only pray that he does not soon take up bestiality or Kabbalha, but whatever it takes.

The thing is, the Pro-tekt is alkaline as all get out. I'm sure it has doubled my dependence on pH down, which just can't be a good thing. And I have no idea why I'm using it, aside from the above. It's an irritating situation. I can't help feeling a little foolish, and please don't spread this about. I sadly confess that I find your endorsement of the product slightly comforting, though only slightly because of the whole not knowing why thing. It protects stem walls from objectivism or something, am I right? The extra ppm are good for plant morale. There must be something about it. Like that Liquid Karma stuff. I've got some of that too. Last season's tds booster.

Well, I've muddied enough pixels. My work here is done.

 

Moderation in all things.
Pick your poison.