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Ph and ppl rising in dwc

Discussion in 'Hydroponic Growing' started by Jjp7141, Nov 17, 2020.

  1. So I am new at this. I just transplanted my 2 week old plants in rockwhool to my def system. It’s been about 4 days. Water level I believe is the same if not slightly more water, but I’d say same water level. My ph rises in a 2 day period twice from about 5.8ph to 6.0 to 6.1. I lower the ph back to 5.8 when this happens. It’s the first week in dwc so I’m using less nutrients then it asks. I’m using 1ml per liter of advanced nutrients micro grow and bloom and also used 1ml per liter of voodoo juice. Also in 4 days my ppm went from 459 to 504. My understanding is it should lower not increase through the week. What is my problem? The water is 70 farenheight 46% humidity grow room 75f. If anyone has suggestions plz let me know thanks
     
  2. Dwc system* autocorrect
     
  3. How big are these plants? 1ml per L is a lot depending how big they are
     
  4. O really on the back of the directions it says 4ml per liter for large plants 2ml per liter for plants with 3-4 sets of leaves and 1ml per liter for seeds and cuttings. I have two plants one is slightly ahead of the other. The larger ones has 5 sets of leaves the smaller has 2 sets of leaves not counting the original 2 leaves
     
  5. They are about 4 inches tall
     
  6. Your ppm is probably too high. Advance nutrients likes to tell you to use more than needed As to sell more nutes. It’s a very broad estimate considering all the different grow styles out there. I rarely ever get over 700ppm in full flower

    Get the ppm to around 150-200 (ppm 700 scale) to start.

    You can also substitute voodoo juice for botanicare hydroguard for about a third of the price and it does the same thing.

    Another thing to consider with these nutrients, (and I’m only saying this because I grow with these nutrients)
    don’t adjust the ph.

    The nutrients in AN ph perfect are chelated to be available in a very broad ph range from something like 4-8.5. By adding acid or base, you’re undoing the chelation process, and getting nutrient lockout.

    I know not adjusting the ph goes against every growers advice on this forum, and they’re very right, but with AN ph perfect SPECIFICALLY, don’t f*** with it. Leave it alone, let it work, change it every 7-10 days in flower, and enjoy the rewards.

    Good luck
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. Wow thanks for the advice. I was changing the
    Ph daily. I was told or looked up that ph in dwc should be 5.5-6.5. So since this is ph perfect nutrients I can
    Literally just let it go up to 8.5ph? Also I will change out the reservoir in a couple days and I will try a .5ml per liter. Hopefully getting it to 150-200ppm. You are right it feels hard to ignore the ph level. If I use less nutrients though like you said will it be enough to make that ph perfect? Thanks for taking the time to answer i will give less nutrients next reservoir change as the plants still look good to me. Also when voodoo juice is out I’ll replace with hydro guard. One more question you wrote ppm 700 scale to start. What’s that mean? Sorry if these are noon or type questions
     
  8. No problem. I had to stop myself from checking ph because I’d drive myself crazy when it was at 7.5 and showing absolutely 0 deficiency’s. It works I promise.

    Ppm is measured in all different kinds of ways (ppm, tds, EC) depending on the meter. EC of 1.0 is 700ppm or 500tds. This chart should clear it up [​IMG]
     
  9. Thanks again appreciate it! Last question I just have to be clear. If I use the advanced nutrients and the ph meter says 7.5 I should ignore it and it’s actually okay because of the advanced nutrients? Also vice versa if it said 4.5ph?
     
  10. I’m driving myself nuts lol so if I use my tds and Ec tester. It says I can read it in ppm or Ec us/cm. On that chart you sent it shows .1 Ec being 50, 64, or 70ppm. How do I know which one is correct? I swear I hope this is my last question
     
  11. My ex measurement says 975 and ppm says 490
     
  12. So my ppm is the 500 scale. As Ec was .975 and ppm was 487.
    I use tap water that I let sit a few days so there is no chlorine. It sits at 7.5ph 169 ppm .339ec

    I am confused now unfortunately. I feel like I can’t get my ppm to 150-200 on 700 scale. That would be 107- 142ppm on my meter. My ppm starts higher then that before I even add a nutrient. I think I will still change it to a .5ml per liter next reservoir change.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. I used mgb for a grow. Might as well get diff nutrients imo.

    Dont trust pH perfect. Manage your pH.

    1:1:1 the whole grow? So the same nitrogen from late veg during late flower? Yea that makes sense...?

    I had so many problems with mgb. Deficiencies, toxicities, lockouts due to AN reps telling me to full dose. AN reps telling me to Ph down and up my nutrient water too.
    All pH "perfect" does is allow nutrients to be taken in at a wider range. Not 4.5pH and 8.5pH, yea right. But if you're at 5.7pH, then the chelates allow calcium (optimal intake at 6pH+) to be taken in too. More so than I guess other nutrients. But other nutrients have chelates too. It's not uncommon or special.

    Now down to helping you..
    The ratio is 1:1:1, that's all that matters. Tailor your ppm to your desire, as long as you put the same amount of each bottle per L. Is 1mL per L too much? Then half it. Too much? Then third it, or quarter it. Whatever you do, add equal amounts of each bottle.

    I would get diff nutrients and learn how to manage nutrient water than rely on anything/anyone else like pH perfect and/or AN reps. Good luck tho, many people have great pH perfect success, but that ain't me.
     
  14. Thanks for the advice I appreciate it! I will make sure to use same amount of each. If my
    Plant is growing well and looking good with what I’m doing now should I still lower nutrient amount of ppm is higher then I want?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. If it's all good then keep rocking until they tell you their more hungry.
    A large drop in ppm will usually tell you theyre hungrier. A rise in ppm will usually tell you they're overfed.
    If you ever get lockout, flush by making an extremely weak nutrient solution compared to your regular feeding with plain water(some flush with completely plain water) and letting the plants sit in that for a day or two. You might see an increase in ppm, but it's not because they're overfed, but because they're letting out the oversaturation of nutrients in their vascular system that is higher concentration than the water outside. This is what flushing accomplishes. Once the flush is done, ide recommend refilling at a lower dose and working your way up through top ups.

    I'm starting to think theres no such thing as underfeeding in dwc because the nutrients are so available. I'm at 380ppm (.5) with two big plants almost in midflower. If I go to 450ppm I get slight burns.
    Also believe if your oxygenation is ideal, got bennies/humates for increased uptake, and your VPD is ideal for the stage the plants are in, then you rly dont need that much nutrients.

    I cant believe I've had successful grows where I was feeding 1000ppm.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Thanks again for all this info! I need to learn somewhere so I appreciate it. I lowered ppm from 400-350 basically and it still is showing signs of burning. I’m going to take 5 more gallons out and add 5 of ph perfect water hopefully that works
     
  17. It works off how much the plant can uptake! so if it drinks 2litres of the water and small amount of nutes! Your water nutes ratio in the bucket is going to be a more concentrate! Check you ppm before you add your nutes! You would probably want to be running 100ppm going into 200-250 in the following weeks check you ppm s if it heaps lower you know it need more nutes! I’ve heard to your not meant to ph that advance nutrients ph perfect? but don’t quote me on that
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. I forgot to mention your vpd.
    Leaf temp
    Humidity
    Temperature
    are all that affect your vapor pressure deficit(vpd). This in part determines your plant's transpiration, ie how much water and nutrient its uptaking.

    Theres a lot of shit at work that I'll try avoid playing scientist with. Because of these systems involving DO at the roots and pressure through the plant, water+nutrient is pulled up thru the roots>xylem>stomatas continuously. We can assume plant matter is atleast 90% water. Most of the water the plant uses is just to release it into the air! It's a crazy read. It's all online.

    Anyways, here is where it gets more complex lol,
    Theres air vpd and leaf vpd. Leaf vpd is what were all looking for I think. I'm not sure how air vpd ties in with it all, still learning! Even wind affects transpiration!

    Ideal (leaf)vpd for cannabis throughout its life can be in the wide range of 0.3kPa to 1.5kPa. The lower the number, basically the lower the transpiration.Theres calculators online.
    I attached a thing I've had since I started here, someone gave to me.

    Now how this is all relevant with nutrients and ppm is as your transpiration ramps up, the systems are being used with more effort, so more water, more nutrient, more uptake. With your temps your vpd (assuming leaf temp is 76f) is 1.19kPa. High for a 2 week old.
    So far I've only noticed personally that inappropriately high vpd increases risk of burns and might put undue stress on a young plant that might express it in a number of odd ways. I've had a plant's leaves in early veg look a little funky shaped/textured, then raised the humidity, and bam, the leaves looked healthier the next day.

    With great vpd, comes great responsibility. Lol.
    Recently I raised my vpd from 0.9kpa to 1.1ish and I noticed I could lower my ppm to achieve similar eating patterns when I had a higher ppm during lower vpd. Only really recognized it in action in my current grow.

    Sorry for rambling, but thanks for letting me ramble. They say you learn the most when you teach. Any pros out there correct me if I'm wrong, I need ta learn too!
    tapatalk_1591301298399.jpg
     
  19. I appreciate all rambling! I think you convinced me to raise my humidity another 5!
     
  20. Any chance you know what wrong here?
    My plants in 24 hours went from great to drooping terribly. Res temp is 66-68 its good, i use hydroguard silica blast and advance nutes micro grow bloom, ppm is 270 ph 5.9-6.1. Humidity is about 55%. Temp in tent is always between 70-80. I dont think i have root rot as there is no smell and res is clean. Any ideas what it could be? O i also still have tons of bubbles coming from air rocks. This is depressing!
     

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