pH and EC: What it Means for Your Plants

Discussion in 'Sick Plants and Problems' started by OhioStateBuckeyes, Nov 21, 2011.

  1. FF=foliar feeding. Haha, not 'who' FF
    I'm just wondering why the PH for foliar is so high; is there something on the leaf surface that acidifies it?
    I generally do follow the levels OSU has listed; but now that I've read your post and done some googling, everything says 6.2-7. I think I'll stick around the lower end because of the hydro values.
     
  2. First of all, props to OSUB and all the growers here that have gone through the trouble of altruistically archiving all of this information for all us aspiring growers. :hello::wave:

    Not sure if this has already been addressed, but this seems to be the only place in the sick plants forum that has this information...but they both say raise! :eek: I'll just google it right now but you might wanna edit that or something :smoking:
     
  3. #23 OhioStateBuckeyes, Dec 14, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2011
    i would stick with what sean posted above. university research trumps everything. you could even narrow the spectrum down to 6.4-6.8, what you would do with soil, if you would like.

    hydroponic application remains 5.6-6.0 in the reservour. foliar application to hydroponic plants would be 6.4-6.8.

    why the diff? the process the plant absorbs nutrients through their leaves with a foliar feed is different than how it gets its nutrients through its roots via hydroponic growing.

    thanks sean dude! :smoke:

    -OSUB
     
  4. Thanks! Though, yours/SkunkPatronus' post made me interested in fully organic (got my soil mix ideas down, and now watching what goes into the compost. Going to grow 0 added nutes, if im lucky, this outdoor spring) so hopefully I can leave all this PH crap behind, haha. For soil anyways, hopefully hydro PH will be a bit easier.
     
  5. LMFAO EPIC FAIL LOL.

    Even beside that. really, a pH of 7 isnt "high" at all. its actually neutral and is the least likely to burn. In this situation i would be more concerned with the strength of the concentration of the foliar application in stead of the actual pH of it. But beside all of that, if i were making a foliar spray (which i commonly do). I wouldn't pH it, for fear of killing all microbes in the solution it's self. and most times aren't, very high of a pH levels at all. I hope that helped to clear that up.

    also on another note, I'm liking the traffic this thread is getting! :) feels like a new little "pH club house" you've built here OSU. It's cozy in here lol.
     
  6. actually "humic acid, citric acid, ammonium nitrate, and apple cider vinegar to raise your pH" those things really do have the ability to "raise" your pH. where as Lime would give the perception of raising the pH but really buffers it.

    it really is technicalities, but yeah i see what you mean. Proper wording can confuse people sometimes i guess. either way we're all here to help, and in some cases get help :)
     
  7. "You can use things like (again, not limited to) humic acid, citric acid, ammonium nitrate, and apple cider vinegar to raise your pH."

    Is this for amending the soil pH, or water solution pH? Needa figure out a way to lower my soils pH asap as my plants spiraling unto death, haha
     
  8. #28 heisenbud, Jan 3, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 13, 2012

    are you fucking kidding me? Great post till the end when you advice grocery store h202, what a jackass idea, FULL of NASTY shit, you never, never put that in your soil or hydro systems.... You HAVE to use food grade h2o2 or nothing. stating your opinion is fine just hold the namecalling-Gh
     
  9. [quote name='"heisenbud"']

    are you fucking kidding me? Great post till the end when you advice grocery store h202, what a jackass idea, FULL of NASTY shit, you never, never put that in your soil or hydro systems.... You HAVE to use food grade h2o2 or nothing.[/quote]

    Really? Nasty shit? How different is h202 from what ever source? From my understanding its all the same just different concentration.

    H2O2 is not always my favorite choice for certain things. But in certain situations that would be my recommened advice also. Please elaborate your discription on "nasty shit" any why so? Also please do it in a kind and considerate fashion. Thanks in advance
     
  10. #30 OhioStateBuckeyes, Jan 3, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 3, 2012
    so....your saying somthing that is approved for human use as an antiseptic is full of "nasty shit" that wouldnt be ok for plant use?

    :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    the other ingredient in the concentrate is H20.....H202 and H20....... for hydro stores and grocery stores alike. idk what kind of hydrogen peroxide your grocery store has, but around here the other solution is pure water. please do research before making assumptions.

    -OSUB
     
  11. #31 heisenbud, Jan 4, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2012
    Nice eye rolls lol. Truth is you're wrong.

    Now listen. Throw out your bullshit 3%. Using it for sanitation in hospitals doesn't mean there aren't chemicals in it that you don't want in the bud you're smoking. Listed below are the grades of H2O2. Notice ALL have stabilizers and additives in them, not dependent on "where" I am, the only ones that have non-nasty stabilizers and additives in them are food grade. The main thing to think about, besides the stabilizers, is the purity of the chemicals used to make the H2O2, and the process used to dilute it "food grade". Products are required legally to meet higher standards, they use better more pure chemicals, they use stabilizers that are known to be non-harmful, and the containers have to be FDA approved as well. Keep in mind I personally don't trust the stabilizers and additives they use in food grade H2O2 either, but I only use it to clean salt build-up every 4 weeks or so.


    Hydrogen Peroxide Grades

    3% Hydrogen Peroxide (Drug/Grocery Store Variety) Used as antimicrobial agent for treating wounds and sanitizing agent [Made from 50% Super D Peroxide, Diluted. Contains stabilizers - phenol, acetanilide, sodium stanate, tetrasodium phosphate among them.] [This peroxide contains known toxic chemicals do not ingest!] impurities dependenton manufacturing and dilution process. Do not ingest.]

    6% Hydrogen Peroxide Used by Beauticians for Coloring Hair. Used as sanitizing agent. Comes in strengths labeled 10,20,40 volume. Must have activator added to be used as a bleach. [Contains stabilizers, additives, and impurities dependenton manufacturing and dilution process. Do not ingest.]

    30% Re-Agent Hydrogen Peroxide Used in medical research. [Contains stabilizers, additives, and impurities dependenton manufacturing and dilution process. Do not ingest.]

    30-32% Electronic Grade Hydrogen Peroxide Used for washing transistors and integrated chip parts before assembly. [Contains stabilizers, additives, and impurities dependenton manufacturing and dilution process. Do not ingest.]

    35% Food Grade Hydrogen Peroxide (Also 50% Food Grade H2O2) [....*....]. Also used to spray inside of foil lined containers for food storage - known as the aseptic packaging system. [Contains stabilizers and additives,

    30-35% Technical Grade Hydrogen Peroxide, Used for waste water treatmentandthe disinfection of potable water, cosmetics, and laundry applications.[May contain a small amount of phosphorus to neutralize any chlorine in the water it is combined with.] MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET & Technical Details: Hydrogen Peroxide (20 to 40%)

    35% Standard Grade Hydrogen Peroxide (Also 50%, 60%, 70% Standard Grades) Used mainly for bleaching in the pulp and paper industry and in the textile industry; oxidation reactions in the chemical industry; environmental processes (detoxification and deodorization). Used for Waste water treatment. [Contains stabilizers, additives, and impurities. Do not ingest.]

    90% Hydrogen Peroxide Used by the military as a source of Oxygen at Cape Canaveral. Used as a propulsion source in rocket fuel.

    99.6% Hydrogen Peroxide This was first made in 1954 as an experiment to see how pure a hydrogen peroxide could be manufactured.
     
  12. By the way, acetanilide was used as a pain killer in hospitals until it was found to be toxic. It was causing dangerously low levels of oxygen in the blood, due to buildup of Methemoglobin, which is hemoglobin with oxygen attached, making it unusable. Methemoglobin is caused by all kinds of chemicals but one maybe used in ANY brand of non-food grade H2O2. Remember non-food grade items aren't regulated by the FDA and as such companies don't need to list every ingredient on the label and can legally have a larger percent of impurities in the product.
     
  13. This is all very new and interesting information to me. I do not use H2O2, because i do organic growing. But i'd still like to know.

    As very informative as your information may be, im more than confident that you didnt memorize all of that and simply type it while driving in your car (which is very dangerous, you should be more careful lol). Im sure you'll be very understanding when i ask for you to cite the information for reference. No offense to you but taking someones word for it is not good enough for me. I like to see authentic scientific evidence if possible, and the origins of your information. Thanks a lot! For the help. Because if nothing else, we all want to give the most acurate and appropriate answers if some one else asks me for my opinion. Na mean? ;) lol
     
  14. everything you posted under 90% H202 has "stabilizers & additives." i dont see horticultural H202 on that list.....

    do a quick google search for horticultural hydrogen peroxide additives.......almost every website will tell you to use household H202. there really isnt a difference between the two....

    -OSUB
     
  15. #35 heisenbud, Jan 4, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2012
    [quote name='"OSUBuckeyes"']everything you posted under 90% H202 has "stabilizers & additives." i dont see horticultural H202 on that list.....

    do a quick google search for horticultural hydrogen peroxide additives.......almost every website will tell you to use household H202. there really isnt a difference between the two....

    -OSUB[/quote]

    Did you read my post? I mentioned that they all had additives. You don't have to tell me. Your being rediculiously stuborn and its like telling people who make hash with butane that its a ridiculous idea, but those people, like you, like the way they do it and are willing to argue with no knowledge what so ever. Anything that is labeled as food.grade is regulated by the FDA always. They use different stablizers and for you to read everything I said and come out with "nope they are the same", makes it obvious to me that there is no real point talking to you. I just hope that people that read this can make a better choice of h2o2 with the info I have provided.
     
  16. [quote name='"SeanDawg"']This is all very new and interesting information to me. I do not use H2O2, because i do organic growing. But i'd still like to know.

    As very informative as your information may be, im more than confident that you didnt memorize all of that and simply type it while driving in your car (which is very dangerous, you should be more careful lol). Im sure you'll be very understanding when i ask for you to cite the information for reference. No offense to you but taking someones word for it is not good enough for me. I like to see authentic scientific evidence if possible, and the origins of your information. Thanks a lot! For the help. Because if nothing else, we all want to give the most acurate and appropriate answers if some one else asks me for my opinion. Na mean? ;) lol[/quote]

    I do have all this in memory, except the list of grades. That was taken off a website that's has the same info about additives in h2o2 that all websites do... H2o2-4u.com/grades .... Typing isn't dangerious either, Im the safest driver out there.
    The only things you really need to believe here is simply food grade is regulated, what goes in must be at least not know to be harmful, non food grade will have chems in it you never want in your body. Period. Again I hope truth can over come stubbornness but it hardly ever can, all I want is more people using high quality h2o2 or even better non at all, not a single bottle in the world has only h202 and water in it. It isn't possible, and i whole heartly agree that organic is the best hands down.
     
  17. #37 OhioStateBuckeyes, Jan 4, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2012
    dont get snoddy. you have nothing to back up what you said. ok, the 3% has phenol, acetanalide (which is toxic, so why would they put that in drug store H202 for anesthetic use? they dont.), etc etc etc.......and everything else listed just says "stablizers & additives;" the only exact ingredients you listed was for the 3% H202. you didnt list any other "stablizers & additives" for any other type of hydrogen peroxide. how the hell will we know what to use if we just know the additives for one thing? you need to be more descriptive. you gave me no info that would change my mind. maybe if you posted ALL the specific additives to H202 (including horticultural H202), than i would change my mind. the information you gave us is somewhat moot, because you didnt really back yourself up with anything other than a copy & paste, and name calling... your link is broken, but i went to the website. how do you know if tin or ammonium is added to your H202? the website doesnt tell you. since you know so well and have it mesmrized, can you share the information with us? how about your suggestion for a brand of H202?



    dont turn my thread into a flame war. frankly, you are pissing me off & making yourself look like an ass. edit through your shit and take every single personal refrence (calling me stubborn, saying thats retarded, i have an autistic cousin thank you very much) out. ill edit mine posts afterward, too. this is a sticky for christ's sake and is meant to be informational. dont do it, and ill have a moderator delete your first post on this thread & everything underneath it. this forum website is for adults only; act like one.

    -OSUB
     
  18. I agree heisenbud. Too combative man, tone it down a bit.
     





  19. Hmm, I presented fact, you threw it in my face saying it was nothing more than assumptions... call me a liar and i get defensive... I really couldn't give a shit if i'm making you mad, telling people to use 3% is terrible advice and i call it as i see it....
    What i didn't make clear before, and what that website and thusly the info i provided from it doesn't make clear, is that ALL food grade h202 is pure, NO stabilizers NO additives, it is the only one made like this because its the only one regulated to be PURE. Period.

    Maybe i should have just said that and linked as much proof as i could find, i apologize for that mis-judgment

    Read the link i provide it shows why, in this case h202, something that is topical, even antiseptics, are NEVER to be ingested... Lots of topical Antiseptics are toxic if you ingest them, this article plainly states I'm right, this isn't fucking news, no one that i know ever uses 3%...


    Food Grade Hydrogen Peroxide Ingestion for Health in the Human Body Truth or Dare
     
  20. I think this whole thing started off on the wrong foot in the first place. Do or dont use it. It would only be incase of emergency anyway. If all goes according to plan you'll never really have to use it anyway. Thanks for the heads up. But please be a little nicer in the future :) it makes it easier for pepople to listen.
     
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