So before I begin- I am a massive meat eater (except today cos i'm rather ill and have only being able to manage two biscuits and some water lol), if there was one thing that I'd struggle to give up if I really had to, it would probably be meat over MJ. Ribs, steak, chicken, pulled pork, you name it- i can probably eat more of it then you lol. However, I've noticed that a lot of meat eaters have some weird chip on their shoulder about Vegetarians. Usually the argument being "well human beings are supposed to eat meat, it's PART OF NATURE n SHIT". I understand this completely, but really when you look at it...is the way we eat meat today actually natural? In nature, we would have to hunt down are own meat and slaughter it ourselves. Here is where my gripe begins. You could put a cow in front of me and tell me that unless I kill it and eat it, then i'll starve. There is no way on earth that i'd kill that cow until i was literally on the very brink of starvation, I hate the thought of harming any animal ever and if that was the way Meat had to be gotten..i'd just eat salad all the time instead, so what gives me the right to eat meat when I would struggle to even give the animal the respect it deserves in slaughtering it by my own hands? Plus the fact that the conditions the animals are kept in for the most part is fucking disgusting, I can't really see whats "natural" about eating something that's lived it's whole life in really horrid conditions only to be killed by a machine at the end of it....I can really see the validity of the vegetarian point of view..and i don't really understand why people look down their nose at them.
I think vegetarianism is frowned upon because a vegetarian is seen as self-righteous, or better than them. It is also not manly, and most people are ignorant of the fact that one can be healthy and strong eating a vegetarian diet. I think most importantly though, from a man's point of view, only a sissy would be vegetarian. Let's consider this: there is nothing manly about going to the grocery store and going home and using your grill to cook it and eat it. What should really be seen as manly is going out into the woods and wrestling with a bear until you snap it's neck off and then carry it off to your house where you will cook it with a fire you made entirely yourself. It is like a very primitive instinct that meat is manly, and perhaps this was true long ago but not anymore. Plus, we are omnivores; we are able to chew and digest meat and plant foods. But we have an abundance of plant foods and less and less animals to eat - so why not make the effort to avoid killing other beings? This is probably the only time since the dawn of man that we can survive and thrive on a vegetarian diet, so we should take advantage of that. Maybe we are also ignorant that when we harm our environment, we harm ourselves. The truth is we are thoroughly confused human beings and so our confusion will only cause a mess. And that is where we are today.
There's a difference between forcing animals to be reared in horrible conditions just to feed our insatiable appetite, and hunting and killing what you need to eat from that which lives free, then using every bit of the animal to ensure you and your family live well. Much of the meat sold here, aside from the expensive organic stuff, now has welfare standards that ensure the animals live properly, have space, and are killed humanely. Only the very cheapest stuff for those who have little money may not be, and that is usually brought in from outside the UK.
There are many vegetarians where I am, and many places cater for them, both specialised shops and cafes. The trouble with the amount of meat we eat now is that it's just not sustainable. From the land needed to raise them, to the land needed to grow the plants to feed them, to the water used in total, much more food could be produced using the same land and water, bypassing the meat. I think we eat too much meat in the West, far more than we really need to. Trouble is it tastes so nice.
I personally don't care if vegetarians don't eat meat. I never tell them that they should eat meat. If someone tells me they are vegetarian, I just say OK. They are usually the ones that tell other people they should only eat plants. Is it ethical to kill plants though? Even grass is a living thing when you think about it.....
To survive, I think we should take what is needed. If there was less of us and more animals roaming around it would be ok. But obviously, we are not taking what is needed. There are enough plants to feed all of us unlike animals. Maybe many years ago, sure, it's fine - but we have insatiable appetites and little mouths to chew it all. In fact, we are always hungry and never satisfied. So vegetarianism would be a decent thing to do in this situation.
We've got to eat something... I can't sit here and say IT'S WRONG TO EAT ANYTHING COS IT ALL STEMS FROM LIVING STUFF SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE. I'm just saying i'd find it a hell of a lot easier to pull some lettuce out the ground then I would slicing a cows throat open and watching it bleed to death..
True, but I wouldn't slice the cow's throat either. I'd find another way to kill it. From the cow's point of view, it wouldn't be good. But, it's not like we expect the cows to worship us or something.
Vegetarians are usually, at least from my experience, totally full of themselves. Just as bad as overzealous religious nuts. Also while there are healthy, strong vegetarian, I've never seen one in person. They're always borderline Holocaust skinny and thinking they're healthy lol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0_Gs7739zE I've met that guy in person and he is vegan, and hands down one of the biggest, scariest people i have ever seen in my life ever. I think thinking that all vegans/vegetarians are skinny is a massive misconception...it's perfectly possible to get all or at least some of the protein you get from meat from other sources..
It all comes down to who slings shit first. I imagine the guy eating a deer didn't have a problem with the guy eating a plant. But when the plant guys get together it's called activism and they try to tell others what to do. This weird chip on the shoulder you speak of, seems to originate there. When was the last time you saw a meat eater wear a shirt that says eating plants is murder? Eating meat is murder is a pretty common t shirt though. Next time you're unsure of why something is, trace it back like I just did. Might surprise yourself.
Yeah but eating plants is more morally justifyable then eating something that you wouldn't be able to slaughter yourself. I could easily pull a lettuce up out of the ground and then eat it, however i wouldn't be able to bring myself to slaughtering a cow...so how can i morally justify the fact that I eat it to the extent I can when i eat vegetables?
llI'll tell you what, since I own a farm: You n your family go out n grow some lettuce. I'll give you seeds. I'll grow chickens for meat n eggs. See who eats first and who survives. You will no doubt die before that lettuce matures, but I will have eggs and meat long before you eat. Morality is not the issue, that is a belief system. That said, there are places in the world chickens and other livestock can survive where vegetation does not. Do you condemn on moral grounds those who eat meat based on your morality? Or do you accept that morality doesn't consider starvation in its logical equation? While you may not be able to slughter a cow, many others can. I guarantee if you were hungry enough you'd slaughter anything to survive.
That is completely not my issue...it don't condemn anyone for being able to eat something they could slaughter themselves...thats a natural part of existence. But I don't live on a farm and I would struggle to kill an animal unless i was on the very end of starvation, so what gives me the right to have it as part of my every day diet? My issue is that some people act like it's some kind of badge that they arn't vegetarians when if someone put an animal in front of them they wouldn't be able to kill it. If you slaughter your own meat then I really don't see any problem with that..
the most common bird on earth is the chicken by miles, there are about 52 billion chickens in the world, thats almost 9 for every human around 75% will be eaten...they aren't dying out any time soon
So what if you can't kill the cow yourself? I can't build a car myself but I still use one every day. Being able to kill something with your own hands isn't a sign of respect (it's a sign of how squeemish you are). I say "eat meat" my friend.
Oh ok, I misunderstood. I guess I'm lost between the "what gives me the right" part of your argument? Unless you stole it, you paid for the meat, so whatever you did to earn that money is your right of passage. My stance is from an investment point of view, since I raise, slaughter, eat my own food, as well as grow veges to feed the meat. I see no moral issue in you partaking from the unnatural entity that is the meat industry, but the same can be said about all the other chemically altered food that sits on the shelf at a grocery store. What gives you the right to eat the cereal, when you didn't grow the genetically modified, ammonia fertilized wheat that most farmers wouldn't give to their cattle (seriously) and sell to the indutries that feed the public. But I digress, as these points can be argued endlessly. I was merely responding to your first post.
so what about scavenger animals? they don't kill what they eat, most of the time larger animals will take food from smaller ones, they didn't kill what they ate....not all animals in the wild eat what they kill... look at the house cat, they have one of the biggest body counts http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/30/domestic-cats-kill-billions-mice-birds-annually-study_n_2575833.html they DO NOT eat almost half of what they kill, they kill for fun, practice and sometimes to eat...are they immoral? or does this kill what you eat thing only apply to humans?