People hate Trump more than they love America

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Bulldog11, Jun 10, 2018.

  1. I’ve heard varying conclusions about how frequently people actually miss their court hearings when they are released. DHS is claiming 90 percent don’t show up but I find that very hard to believe when they’ve shown to be lying frequently. Also let’s face it governments cook books on stays all the time. I saw some research that was mildly convincing that as much as 80 percent show up for their trial date. There are various mechanisms to increase these rates such as cash bail, ankle monitors and case workers. This is actually a very highly studied idea and we should take cues from states which are doing very smart bail procedures. It costs anywhere from 200-740 dollars a night to detain an immigrants. This is a cost you must add into the calculus. Personally for me it depends on how many actually skip their trials and there isn’t 100 percent clear data on that question.
     
  2. The stats, as usual, probably depend heavily on what data sets you choose to include. Still, it's a legitimate issue, some are not going to show up and it's perfectly reasonable that they not be allowed to simply disappear into the country.

    Cash bail might work, except for the fact that many of these people don't have a lot of money. I don't see ankle monitors as a solution since you can cut those off and there's no way to track people down after that if they change addresses.
     
  3. Don't post gvmnt links if you're going to flip flop.

    "Metal Gear!"
     
  4. People get murdered for no reason in America too. Happens quite frequently actually. Should we be able to escape to another 1st world country seeking asylum? If Im from Chicago can i seek asylum in Switzerland?

    Youre the one who brought up asylum seekers, why dont you show me your data. For all i know only a small percentage are actually claiming it
     
  5. If it wasn't Trump this wouldn't be a story, it's being twisted by people pushing an agenda.
    Caring for the children of detained illegal aliens should be encouraged, especially those who have just made a very perilous 2,000 mile trip. I can imagine the relief these parents must feel knowing their kids are safe from whatever menace was facing them in their home countries and are being well cared for while they take care of their legal problems.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Yeah I’m sure the parents would rather be separated from their kids, not know where they are, and be detained themselves than to be released on bail or with an ankle bracelet until they show up at their court date. Don’t pretend like this is good for the kids or the parents. You can argue that it’s the best policy from an American perspective but it is clearly very bad for the kids and the parents and to pretend otherwise is beyond disengenous
     
  7. Yes but blazed I would rather have some x percent be illegal citizens than spend 200-750 a night to house these people. It costs so much to detain people and the taxpayers are directly eating that cost and it benefits almost no one. Just think about this to detain one individual for the two month period usually required it costs about 12,000-45,000 depending on the accommodations. I highly doubt these immigrants would be getting that amount in government benefits so to me the juice doesn’t seem worth the squeeze. Especially when a lot of them will show back up for their court hearings. Additionally many will pay things like sales tax or use fake SS number and contribute to federal taxes.
    Also they pay things like property tax indirectly through paying rent. The point being that you have to weigh these costs and nobody is doing that. We’re having conversation about what should be and not pragmatically what is.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Sure let em out on bail.... see if they come back.

    Spoiler. They don't.

    We going to issue thousands of ankle bracelets now? Really that's what you want our taxes going in to?

    Not just the production but the massive increase in monitoring...


    "You're that ninja....."
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. The Left:

    Let them be together!!! Hitler! Hitler!

    Trump: ........ Ok....

    The Left: We don't want them together let them free in to the country!!!! Hitler!

    Where was this during Obama? Oh uhhh nowhere because Obama does no wrong, but when he does wrong it was Bush or Trump and when Trump does right it was Obama......

    This is why the Left is losing power.



    "You're that ninja....."
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. #250 mandoluce, Jun 22, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
    "I would rather have x percent be illegal than to spend..."

    So all of this rhetoric for pages have been about the poor poor children, but you would rather the children (and parents) be homeless after crossing illegally, with probably no money for shelter or food rather than pay to house them? That seems inhumane..

    And I really doubt that these brand new illegal immigrants are contributing much in the way of taxes, that is until they have an illegal job, illegal home to pay rent at, etc. Which is probably not that easy to do depending on where you are at. Honestly, I don't even take this argument as serious, because how would you ever quantify how much is actually contributed? You cant, it's a guess, and nothing more.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. So you support law enforcement on a "tolerance-based" policy? Maybe we should tolerate some crimes more than others? How about a new Federal 3-letter to go along with DEA, FBI, ICE, etc. Let's call it the BUI: Bureau of Utterly Idiotic ideas.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Is it ok for the state to break up families if they are illegal immigrants or citizens that break the law and why? And why should asylum seekers be given more rights than citizens? How would you discourage illegal immigration? You seem to me to have a agenda outside of caring for children. You seem to care more about liberal policies than unborn or foriegn children. I often wonder if you knew that 80% of the children aborted could be proven to vote liberal and that because of abortions conservatives will someday have full control of policies how many liberals would change their tunes considering abortion. Just like if 80% of these immigrants were voting conservative I bet you would be demanding a bigger than trump bigley fence with a moat with crocodiles with lasers. To pretend this isn't about politics is miss leading. Letting any ignorant liberal foreigner to literally invade our country and to democratically change our way of life is a assault on conservative small government (or no government) type people like mysel. If these people were holding Trump signs instead of Polosi signs the narrative would be much different I think. I'm for open borders but we cannot have a welfare state, we also cannot have a democratically ran society if this is the case. A welfare state attracts the wrong kind of people for the wrong kind of reasons. Also a mob rule government potentially shifts the power to these same people. Our country has been so prosperous for so long because we until recently have had a system that defused power, limited its ability to gather and suppress the people, minorities and majorities alike. A system built on laws not men. Today we have a democracy built around people that uses political power to push a agenda. Not through debate and compromise but through the state and its power to legislate. Through incremental liberal policies our freedoms and our healthy independent heritage has been neutered from us by the state. Our forefathers would not recognize this government. Our freedom fighters of the 60s & 70s, people like Bob Marley would not recognize our youth. Statist in every meaning of the word "the man" is winning the hearts and minds of too many in this country. If you really care gw put YOUR money not mine where your mouth is like bulldog. Why don't YOU take in a foreign exchange student or adopt a child. Take on the expense take on the responsibility of it, make it real. Stop playing politics.

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Grasscity Forum mobile app
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. Why is it so hard for people to understand that tolerating this nonsense is the root of the illegal immigration problem in the first place?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. First your ascribing other people’s beliefs to me. I come at this issue from both a moral and logistical perspective. I think it is morally problematic to separate asylum seekers from their kids as a form of deterring people from seeking asylum, which the trump administration has admitted multiple times. Secondly, I think logistically it’s a bad idea and that releasing these individuals on bond or with ankle monitors/case managers ehich have been very effective for normal bail situations of citizens is a more practical solution than spending a shitload to detain them. Third, most illegal immigrants who come here already have relatives and friends who live here, who they will stay with. The policy for immigrant children whose parents are detained is to give them to friends/families of the II who are citizens in the US or legal residents.

    Fourth, if you really think that immigrants would prefer to be detained to their current situation of having to find shelter why are a vast majority upset with this policy. I’ll trust that the people actually experiencing this process have a far better idea of what would be more humane for them and their family than you who have literally no ability to know what their situation is.

    Additionally, you completely misunderstood my point. Blaze said some percent will not show up at their court date which I agree with. Meaning they will continue to live here illegally, find jobs, find a place to live, etc. My point was that I believe it would be more cost effective to release people until their court hearings than to spend a shitload of money detaining them. I was also pointing out the main reason people are opposed to illegal immigration they claim is that illegal immigrants use more taxpayer money in benefits than they put into the system. I was pointing out that spending 10-40 thousand dollars to detain an individual is probably far more than the net drain of an individual illegal immigrant on our tax base. This is because they all have to pay sales tax, no way around that and pay rent which will indirectly go to property tax. What do you think landlords pay property tax with? I do think illegal immigrants are a net negative on the tax base but I think detaining individuals rather than accepting some percent will not show up at their court hearings is a far greater net negative than having these people who choose not to show up at their court date slip through the cracks. Either way it’s clear that detaining individuals is a very costly endeavor.
     
  15. Ankle bracelets only work on people who have addresses lol they are fucking delusional

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Grasscity Forum mobile app
     
    • Like Like x 2
  16. #257 Frasier, Jun 22, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
    They NEED those Dem votes.

    Also love how that Time pic got shredded. The mother lied to get asylum and the kid was crying cause she was tired. Big scary Donald had nothing to do with it.

    "You're that ninja....."
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  17. Why don't you use the term "Illegal immigrants" as opposed to just "immigrants?"
     

Share This Page