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Pain and Suffering - Why they exist.

Discussion in 'Religion, Beliefs and Spirituality' started by Burrito Bandito, Mar 27, 2012.

  1. Well basically I boiled it down to this: If everyone's life was easy, nobody's life would be beautiful.

    Suffering/pain is a necessary tool for our spiritual growth, to teach us compassion. How would one learn compassion without suffering?

    How could anyone experience gain without loss? This balance must exist in a dualistic world.

    This is the reasoning of most people I've met who are atheistic, "If God was real, how could he allow all the pain/suffering in this world?" To teach us compassion! To give us relief at the end of this life! There cannot be relief without stress.

    This pain/suffering is temporary!

    Even if you only experience pain and suffering your entire life, never had one moment of joy, how long would you be suffering? 70 years? 80 years? And then it's over!

    And come on, how many people do you know that only experience pain and misery? Life balances out the pain with joy, the suffering with love, if you let it!

    So... yeah :smoke:
     
  2. What are your high thoughts on the subject of pain and suffering in this world?
     
  3. I personally believe you are where you are, from your vibrations, karma/reincarnation.

    You live a terrible way of life making other suffer, most likely you will be suffering in the next.

    Live today in a good way, make your next one better, if you wish.
     
  4. But what about suffering that is 100% undeserved and unnecessary?

    Let's say that a house is struck by lightening and engulfs in flames causing a completely innocent baby to die.

    The baby couldn't learn from this suffering or bring any positive out of the situation since it is dead... and it did absolutely nothing to deserve it in the first place.

    I don't believe that pain/ suffering is necessary to grow as a person and in turn find joy and happiness. Although, I do believe that we can learn a lot from the pain that we go through considering that pain is inevitable. The key to happiness is to look at every situation that you encounter as a positive experience, even though that may be difficult at times.
     
  5. I agree with you that to fully comprehend joy and happiness you must understand pain and suffering. But such is the way with everything intangible. You cannot easily describe something you cannot physically see or touch, so with all emotions you must know their opposite to fully understand or define them.
    But if you are suggesting that all pain & suffering in the world is merely an act of a diety to allow us to comprehend true joy and happiness in the "after-life", i disagree. Though it is a comforting thought, IMHO suffering and pain are just natural things. All animals will encounter things that could potentially cause them suffering, but their simple brains don't dwell on this and so their pain and suffering is only temporary. Our advanced brains seem to overthink and overcomplicate many things and so we create or increase our suffering. Modern society has gone in the wrong direction, and so pain and suffering is more wide-spread.
    IMO the farther we go from nature and our natural way of life(talking pre-society,language, etc.) the more we will suffer.
    But as with everything in life; pain, suffering, happiness, life itself is temporary. So don't dwell on this.
     
  6. Heres one of mine..

    Most folk are blind to it until its on their doorstep.
     

  7. All suffering is necessary, I explained why in the OP. You cannot have compassion without experiencing suffering. There are always necessary life lessons that can be learned from every instance of suffering, even in your hypothetical example.

    What can be learned from an infant dying in a house fire? Many. For one, that everyone dies sooner or later. Life may not seem fair at times. Suffering is only temporary, how long did that baby suffer? 5 minutes? And then it's over, and that child has moved on. All suffering comes to an end, if we let it.

    But I digress, "undeserved" suffering only truly makes sense if you believe that we have souls, and that our souls carry on past this life, which I do.

    Thanks for your input though man :smoke:
     

  8. Yes exactly, suffering is only temporary. Why are we still experiencing continued and often times over-arching pain and suffering here and now? Because many humans still have more to learn from it. We as a species have not learned to truly be compassionate, to truly love one another, to truly care. And until we do, we will continue to experience pain, and misery, and loneliness.

    God isn't the one doing this to us, he's merely allowing us to do it to ourselves in the hopes that one day we will learn from it.
     
  9. must be satisfying for you to say pain/suffering is temporary when most likely your suffering is individualistic or personal.

    you say
    you say it yourself. you have to experience the suffering in order to understand compassion. have you personally experienced being a deprived individual in an undeveloped country? does your stomach ache of hunger for as long as you can remember?

    okay, so if some dude is a shitty person, does that mean he was a shitty person in the past or is this his first life and he was previously all animals? and what if you are wrong? Wouldn't that mean that humans are the cause of undeserved suffering? why wouldn't it be our duty to liberate everyone then?

    but we will never know if "our souls carried on," so why would i want to spend a life of suffering? suffering to achieve goals i think is what you are hinting at, but suffering because of unwanted or unknown influence is the suffering you say "hey its only temporary."
     

  10. If someone is a "shitty person", then they are a shitty person by nature. Karma will have varying effects on everyone, I'm not going to pretend I know exactly how it operates.

    Yes, humans are indeed the cause of undeserved suffering, I thought I made that clear in my posts but I guess not quite clear enough. I think it is our duty to liberate them. Like I said, suffering exists in this world to teach us compassion. If all humans were compassionate, suffering would become extinct in short order. The problem is, everyone says they're compassionate when they're typing on the keyboard. Very few people actually go out and prove it.

    Nobody wants to spend a life of suffering, of course. But like I said, suffering is only temporary, no matter how bad it is, or how little one may appear to deserve it.

    Keep this in mind also. The greater one's suffering, the greater their relief when it comes to an end. Balance.
     
  11. All suffering and pain are a direct result of not appeasing "the will"...
     
  12. People use what you just said to disprove god also.

    People say that it was convenient since peoples lives used to be short and miserable so to get followers the church promised everlasting and eternal happiness.
     
  13. Pain has taught me a lot, but i reject that it is necessary for compassion.

    No one needs their mom to die for them to be compassionate to another person whose mom has just died.

    And the hardest thing about karma for me is, basically that good people get fucked over more than the bad.

    Ghandi: lived his life holy, liberated a country peacefully, stood up for people's rights in africa, led a nation------ shot and killed

    there are better examples of that obviously, but I think the point is clear
     

  14. Appearances are very deceiving.
     
  15. [quote name='"stonywoob"']But what about suffering that is 100% undeserved and unnecessary?

    Let's say that a house is struck by lightening and engulfs in flames causing a completely innocent baby to die.

    The baby couldn't learn from this suffering or bring any positive out of the situation since it is dead... and it did absolutely nothing to deserve it in the first place.

    I don't believe that pain/ suffering is necessary to grow as a person and in turn find joy and happiness. Although, I do believe that we can learn a lot from the pain that we go through considering that pain is inevitable. The key to happiness is to look at every situation that you encounter as a positive experience, even though that may be difficult at times.[/quote]

    The baby was bad in its last life duh.

    Lol, karma is dumb, just like.heaven.

    Am i the only one who thinks people should be good because its the right thing to do?

    If i go to hell rejecting jesus, ill know i was a good person for the sake of being good and not needing some fucked up divine tyrant to keep me in line.

    coarse i dont believe in a god that would send a good person to hell for something so simple as rejecting jesus lol. Thats not love thats like a crazy dillusional father telling his children to love him or else he will throw them out on the street.

    Love is a tradeoff not an entitlement
     
  16. If their mom never died, how could you have compassion for them?

    If you had never gone through suffering (therefore giving you the ability to imagine what that suffering would feel like), how could you have compassion?

    You contradicted yourself, if there is no pain, what can you have compassion for?

    Being shot and killed is only a bad thing if you are afraid of death, I'm fairly confident Ghandi was nothing of the sort, I imagine he was rather looking forward to his death.

    Why is that? Because he lived a good and righteous life, he fulfilled his life's purpose, he had nothing left to do here in this world.

    The true torture, is living a fruitless life, doing nothing unless it benefits you, always looking out for number 1. Those are the people who are afraid of death, the selfish ones who cling onto their life, as if there is even a small chance that they may get to keep it.

    If I have pity for anyone, I have pity for them. So afraid, so fearful of something that they know is coming for them, and getting closer every day.
     
  17. You couldn't be more correct!! You hit the nail on the head!!!!

    Why then do so many people feel they are entitled to God's love when they show him nothing but spite? When they blame him for all the evil in the world and none of the good?What have you done to deserve this life? God has taken the first step, if you want to know him, start showing him that you truly love him. He will reveal himself to you incrementally when you are ready, when he knows he can trust you and you can handle it.

    Jesus didn't come here to "keep you in line", he came here to show you the way. It's of course your choice whether you want to listen and learn from his wisdom, or do things "your way". But if you choose the latter, don't expect any help from the one's face upon which you just spat.

    And even then, you will still receive mercy. You've had many second chances, are you going to keep asking for another one?
     
  18. Compassion isn't some kind of necessity to live life. Nor is it a necessity to enjoy life. Therefore you don't need to suffer to enjoy life. Fuck that.
     
  19. ... where did I say you need to suffer to enjoy life? lol
     
  20. Well there you go man, I don't really buy into the concept of the soul. But hey, who am I to say if it really exists?

    Just curious though, what exactly do you believe a soul is? What makes it up/ what is its purpose? How does it work?
     
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