Overcoming highly acid ph

from what ive read my brother would start brewing teas and step away from the bottle.... a simply 2-3 gallon tea can be diluted 1 cup or two to a gallon and you could feed plenty of plants... if that makes any sense just got done smoking a huge j of white durban to the dome

 

1-2 cups per gallon of water maybe

 

Compost, even top dressing will help stabilize your pH.

Why do you need to buy the expensive "Earth juice"? Don't get me wrong if it's doing what you want it to do and you are happy and content with your end product then by all means use it.

You can buy (as you mentioned humid acid above) high-quality humic acid concentrate from BioAg online. It's fairly inexpensive and you only use a quarter of a teaspoon per gallon of water.

Try switching out some of your feedings with a kelp meal tea. Kelp meal is fairly inexpensive as well - if you buy a 50 pound sack it should cost you around a dollar a pound. Mix an eighth to a quarter of a cup of kelp meal per gallon of water and simply soak it for several days to several weeks stirring occasionally.

There are many botanical teas that you can make very easily and which will serve you very well. Do some reading here - http://forum.grasscity.com/organic-growing/951823-botanicals.html

I think at the very least you can supplement your feedings and save yourself some money and at the same time give your plants some wonderful teas while making them yourself at home for next to nothing.

Don't forget the top dressing with compost or earthworm castings or both.

J

 

I was correcting PH everytime but was taking way too long to get in and out and using a lot of natural up, which is expensive and not so good in the long run most likely

In a decent organic soil you shouldn't have to worry about the pH as much as I think that you are thinking. Don't get me wrong - pH is very important but in an organic garden it's not something that we need to worry about every day and check and change.

How are your plants looking? They will tell you if something is wrong.

 

I second the Bio-Ag humic acid...my soil is full of it. It's very very good stuff.

 

[quote name='"WRhinocerous"']I cant brew any teas because I have to mix it up on the spot and carry water all over the place, it's rough lol. Ill try not to worry so much about the PH but it's hard not to when you know how quick this stuff lowers it and how long it takes to fix it[/quote]

Sounds like me. I use Earth Juice as well, and some time ago I started using baking soda to quick-correct my mix before application. A 1/4 cup is all it takes to pull up 5 gallons of solution from pH-4's to pH-6's. Now, I know that the soda is by nature inorganic, but you can get some with an organic stamp if it really matters to you. It's cheap and works instantly. I just use A&H brand and I'm cool with calling my stuff 99% organic as a result.

Edit: I must say that you should let your mix sit for a few minutes after vigorous mixing so that anything that may be given off by its reaction can dissipate. Generally, CO2. Also, sodium bicarbonate can be used as a mild fungicide, and the EPA lists sodium bicarbonate as a biopesticide. Nevertheless, I have no problems maintaining a healthy fungus population and soil ecology. The slight amounts used have no effect on such things.

 

I agree, however the idea is that with the arsenal of tools available to organic gardeners, products like baking soda or sodium bicarbonate would not make it into the garden, not at all. Maybe if you stick around the section you may notice this...

 

I had an angle... This list is of permitted substances. Sodium bicarbonate doesn't appear on the permitted list, and doesn't appear on the prohibited list. However, you can use sodium bicarbonate as an Organic food ingredient. Given the substances on the list of things that can go into organic crop production, I'd say a little bit if bicarbonate wouldn't matter much. Don't bite my head off. This is the justification that I used. It took me a good bit of consideration before I let myself do it. Believe me, it's not ideal, but is negligible.


"In accordance with restrictions specified in this section, the following synthetic substances may be used in organic crop production: Provided, That, use of such substances do not contribute to contamination of crops, soil, or water. Substances allowed by this section, except disinfectants and sanitizers in paragraph (a) and those substances in paragraphs (c), (j), (k), and (l) of this section, may only be used when the provisions set forth in §205.206(a) through (d) prove insufficient to prevent or control the target pest.

(a) As algicide, disinfectants, and sanitizer, including irrigation system cleaning systems.

(1) Alcohols.

(i) Ethanol.

(ii) Isopropanol.

(2) Chlorine materials—For pre-harvest use, residual chlorine levels in the water in direct crop contact or as water from cleaning irrigation systems applied to soil must not exceed the maximum residual disinfectant limit under the Safe Drinking Water Act, except that chlorine products may be used in edible sprout production according to EPA label directions.

(i) Calcium hypochlorite.

(ii) Chlorine dioxide.

(iii) Sodium hypochlorite.

(3) Copper sulfate—for use as an algicide in aquatic rice systems, is limited to one application per field during any 24-month period. Application rates are limited to those which do not increase baseline soil test values for copper over a timeframe agreed upon by the producer and accredited certifying agent.

(4) Hydrogen peroxide.

(5) Ozone gas—for use as an irrigation system cleaner only.

(6) Peracetic acid—for use in disinfecting equipment, seed, and asexually propagated planting material.

(7) Soap-based algicide/demossers.

(8) Sodium carbonate peroxyhydrate (CAS #–15630–89–4)—Federal law restricts the use of this substance in food crop production to approved food uses identified on the product label.

(b) As herbicides, weed barriers, as applicable.

(1) Herbicides, soap-based—for use in farmstead maintenance (roadways, ditches, right of ways, building perimeters) and ornamental crops.

(2) Mulches.

(i) Newspaper or other recycled paper, without glossy or colored inks.

(ii) Plastic mulch and covers (petroleum-based other than polyvinyl chloride (PVC)).

(c) As compost feedstocks—Newspapers or other recycled paper, without glossy or colored inks.

(d) As animal repellents—Soaps, ammonium—for use as a large animal repellant only, no contact with soil or edible portion of crop.

(e) As insecticides (including acaricides or mite control).

(1) Ammonium carbonate—for use as bait in insect traps only, no direct contact with crop or soil.

(2) Aqueous potassium silicate (CAS #–1312–76–1)—the silica, used in the manufacture of potassium silicate, must be sourced from naturally occurring sand.

(3) Boric acid—structural pest control, no direct contact with organic food or crops.

(4) Copper sulfate—for use as tadpole shrimp control in aquatic rice production, is limited to one application per field during any 24-month period. Application rates are limited to levels which do not increase baseline soil test values for copper over a timeframe agreed upon by the producer and accredited certifying agent.

(5) Elemental sulfur.

(6) Lime sulfur—including calcium polysulfide.

(7) Oils, horticultural—narrow range oils as dormant, suffocating, and summer oils.

(8) Soaps, insecticidal.

(9) Sticky traps/barriers.

(10) Sucrose octanoate esters (CAS #s—42922–74–7; 58064–47–4)—in accordance with approved labeling.

(f) As insect management. Pheromones.

(g) As rodenticides.

(1) Sulfur dioxide—underground rodent control only (smoke bombs).

(2) Vitamin D3.

(h) As slug or snail bait. Ferric phosphate (CAS # 10045–86–0).

(i) As plant disease control.

(1) Aqueous potassium silicate (CAS #–1312–76–1)—the silica, used in the manufacture of potassium silicate, must be sourced from naturally occurring sand.

(2) Coppers, fixed—copper hydroxide, copper oxide, copper oxychloride, includes products exempted from EPA tolerance, Provided, That, copper-based materials must be used in a manner that minimizes accumulation in the soil and shall not be used as herbicides.

(3) Copper sulfate—Substance must be used in a manner that minimizes accumulation of copper in the soil.

(4) Hydrated lime.

(5) Hydrogen peroxide.

(6) Lime sulfur.

(7) Oils, horticultural, narrow range oils as dormant, suffocating, and summer oils.

(8) Peracetic acid—for use to control fire blight bacteria.

(9) Potassium bicarbonate.

(10) Elemental sulfur.

(11) Streptomycin, for fire blight control in apples and pears only until October 21, 2014.

(12) Tetracycline, for fire blight control only and for use only until October 21, 2012.

(j) As plant or soil amendments.

(1) Aquatic plant extracts (other than hydrolyzed)—Extraction process is limited to the use of potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide; solvent amount used is limited to that amount necessary for extraction.

(2) Elemental sulfur.

(3) Humic acids—naturally occurring deposits, water and alkali extracts only.

(4) Lignin sulfonate—chelating agent, dust suppressant.

(5) Magnesium sulfate—allowed with a documented soil deficiency.

(6) Micronutrients—not to be used as a defoliant, herbicide, or desiccant. Those made from nitrates or chlorides are not allowed. Soil deficiency must be documented by testing.

(i) Soluble boron products.

(ii) Sulfates, carbonates, oxides, or silicates of zinc, copper, iron, manganese, molybdenum, selenium, and cobalt.

(7) Liquid fish products—can be pH adjusted with sulfuric, citric or phosphoric acid. The amount of acid used shall not exceed the minimum needed to lower the pH to 3.5.

(8) Vitamins, B1, C, and E.

(9) Sulfurous acid (CAS # 7782–99–2) for on-farm generation of substance utilizing 99% purity elemental sulfur per paragraph (j)(2) of this section.

(k) As plant growth regulators. Ethylene gas—for regulation of pineapple flowering.

(l) As floating agents in postharvest handling.

(1) Lignin sulfonate.

(2) Sodium silicate—for tree fruit and fiber processing.

(m) As synthetic inert ingredients as classified by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), for use with nonsynthetic substances or synthetic substances listed in this section and used as an active pesticide ingredient in accordance with any limitations on the use of such substances.

(1) EPA List 4—Inerts of Minimal Concern.

(2) EPA List 3—Inerts of unknown toxicity—for use only in passive pheromone dispensers.

(n) Seed preparations. Hydrogen chloride (CAS # 7647–01–0)—for delinting cotton seed for planting.

(o) As production aids. Microcrystalline cheesewax (CAS #'s 64742–42–3, 8009–03–08, and 8002–74–2)–for use in log grown mushroom production. Must be made without either ethylene-propylene co-polymer or synthetic colors.

(p)–(z) [Reserved]

[65 FR 80637, Dec. 21, 2000, as amended at 68 FR 61992, Oct. 31, 2003; 71 FR 53302 Sept. 11, 2006; 72 FR 69572, Dec. 10, 2007; 75 FR 38696, July 6, 2010; 75 FR 77524, Dec. 13, 2010; 77 FR 8092, Feb. 14, 2012; 77 FR 33298, June 6, 2012]"

Taken from the National Organic Program: http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...c&rgn=div5&view=text&node=7:3.1.1.9.32&idno=7

 

(My low post count is not indicative of my experience. I have been growing organically since the days of Overgrow. I just now decided to finally make another home.)

I use it all the time, with absolutely no negative ramifications. I actually starting using BS almost two years ago. (some time ago, ha!) Regulations generally allow for small amounts of inorganic substances, provided that mother nature doesn't make it herself. Baking soda/Sodium bicarbonate fits this bill, and I've spent beans on pH control in the time since my switch. My pupil uses it to adjust while making his bubble teas, and he gets rocking tea cultures going.
Here is a thread with a couple of my budshots. My plants are always healthy, sweet, clean, and never harsh.

http://forum.grasscity.com/indoor-g...-introduction-through-journal-forum-pics.html

 

Sodium Bicarb is salt. Plants aren't thrilled by salt addition. Organically grown plants with a flourishing micro-herd don't need their additions monitoring for ph.

 

I use the BioAg humic. I also lime my mixes. I have not noticed that the lime affects the humic's ability to do its job.

Was there any sort of 'cite' with this information on the lime? Actual studies, not something off a mj site? I ask because I've never seen any of this on 'straight' gardening sites, where gardeners and farmers use lime and humics together quite often.

BTW, I've used EJ+Humic on a limed peat based mix and never pH'ed anything. Not the EJ, or the water, or .........

Wet

 

So ... Why not use some lime, Calcitic or Dolomitic and just avoid all these convolutions with the pH?

Wet

 

[quote name='"WRhinocerous"']

Not knocking you or anything, hope I didn't come across that way...just wondering if you ever saw any ill effects, but doesn't sound like it! Nice flowers btw...[/quote]

I didn't think you were. It was more of a general disclaimer.

There's dolomitic lime in my soil. It can just be quite hard to get over the mental aspect of pouring strongly acidic solution into the soil.

Of course it's a salt, and of course it isn't totally ideal. But it works, and doesn't thin the micro-herd. I live in an area that is largely devoid of organic produce, let alone organic grow products. I literally have to do what I can, and the NACO3 is the least of my concerns pertaining to ethically producing affordable, quality product on my demand schedule.

I will say that even though I have been set in a 'what-works' pattern, I have been looking for a different complete line for some time now.
Perhaps someone can tell me if they've had any experience with the GH line called General Organics?