Out of your mind?

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by Stoner Vision, Jan 26, 2012.

  1. One of my philosophical theories is that if we didn't have dialogue would we have thought? basically if we didn't have language would people be able to think? Would there be any thought process what so ever?
     
  2. Yes, how would we have been able to come up with communication in the first place?
     
  3. Language is a code that we as humans have invented. A code used to represent and communicate abstractions of ideas. I think the most important experiences in life are ineffable, language is inadequate to fully express what they mean.

    Smoke a bowl and do some meditation in the woods. Not everything falls so neatly into words.
     
  4. [quote name='"Typical Toker"']Yes, how would we have been able to come up with communication in the first place?[/quote]

    Well what about the first humans? They wouldn't know anything about the world. Things that we know today they wouldn't have (I'm talking about simple things) If they saw a something that could potentially hurt them they wouldn't be able to understand because they didn't know what "Hurt" meant. If they didn't know what it meant then they cant understand. If they did feel pain they might not know if its bad.
    You see what I'm talking about?
     

  5. No, pain is a feeling it requires no thought process to realize oh shit thats not fun.
     
  6. #6 Rayban, Jan 26, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2012
    please don't take this as a personal attack or anything, but this makes no sense. they would still be able to understand the concept of pain, even if there is no way to communicate it. feeling and communication are two very different things

    to answer your original question, yes. there is a point of advancement at which you need language to communicate, but to think about very basic ideas i don't think one would need language
     

  7. Humans weren't just plopped onto Earth suddenly like infants without a clue. We evolved. Animals don't have language but they have instincts. If an animal feels pain, it will react accordingly. This is how animals survive. You don't need sentience or language to adapt to an environment.
     
  8. But evolution is based on genetic language, including epigenetic adaptation...
     

  9. Indeed. You still don't need sentience or a developed language of communication for evolution to occur.
     
  10. [quote name='"Mister Finch"']

    Humans weren't just plopped onto Earth suddenly like infants without a clue. We evolved. Animals don't have language but they have instincts. If an animal feels pain, it will react accordingly. This is how animals survive. You don't need sentience or language to adapt to an environment.[/quote]

    But how can you formulate your thoughts with out words? I mean when has someone really thought without using dialogue
     
  11. Interesting...

    --

    Suppose you were living in the wild, all alone, thus having no need to speak to anyone.

    At most you'll talk to yourself... or to a tree... but eventually you'll shut up and speak almost none.

    But it wouldn't mean you'll stop thinking...

    You'll still be thinking about stuff, like... hm... that waterfall looks pretty cool...

    Or you'll think, hm... the night is too cold...

    But after many many years, you will not think in language, but you'll just... think with emotions.

    You will think not only with your brain, but you'll think with your whole body.

    I don't know man...

    If I spent the rest of my life alone, I'll probably think really really fast as there is no need to string words together to represent my thoughts and feelings.
     
  12. #12 DBV, Jan 27, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2012
    That's the thing.. evolution doesn't occur without a developed genetic language translating bits of information into genes/genetic expression (cellular communication) or epigenetically altering its own genetic expression.
     
  13. Genes code for proteins. The accepted theory is that those codes arose due to chance circumstances, proliferation and natural selection.

    Do you think someone wrote our code or are you alluding to another theory?
     

  14. its basically like god appearing from nothingness, and being like "where the hell am i?"



    humans look everywhere for the mystic to find its been humans all along:smoke:
     
  15. Like I said before... When has anyone really thought without using dialogue?... It's kind of like have a filing cabnet with a bunch of stuff in it but competently un-organized.
     
  16. That is your accepted theory.. biologists don't really understand how the histones got their information. All we know is cells can epigenetically alter its own information/genetic expression due to environmental stimulus. I'm not saying people wrote out the information, no.. I believe the information came from nature (what many would call god).
     
  17. [quote name='"Stoner Vision"']Like I said before... When has anyone really thought without using dialogue?... It's kind of like have a filing cabnet with a bunch of stuff in it but competently un-organized.[/quote]

    Whenever I would get in a fight with my brother I would think without words. If I got hit I would become angry (obviously) and go after him to inflict some damage. I didn't sit there and think "well, I am now rather furious". I just acted. Language is completely unnecessary to about every animal. My dog knows not to eat plastic. He doesn't know that it's called plastic, but he still knows not to eat it.
     
  18. Cells do not alter their own genes; genes are mutated through several different means.

    If a being didn't write the code and it didn't come together by chance, than what are you proposing?
     
  19. [quote name='"Megacosm"']

    Whenever I would get in a fight with my brother I would think without words. If I got hit I would become angry (obviously) and go after him to inflict some damage. I didn't sit there and think "well, I am now rather furious". I just acted. Language is completely unnecessary to about every animal. My dog knows not to eat plastic. He doesn't know that it's called plastic, but he still knows not to eat it.[/quote]

    Yes but that is an example of basic instinct which is another matter all together. now with your dog.. it probly see's it as a hard, un-natural material.
     
  20. There are concepts in my head that I couldn't even begin to put into words.
     

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