Organic quickie

Discussion in 'Growing Organic Marijuana' started by JFlow941, Aug 17, 2013.

  1. #1 JFlow941, Aug 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2013
    What's good GC! :wave: So after about 5 grows I've decided to make the transition to organics. I've sourced all of my ingredients (minus neem meal, but will order that next week)

    My question is, should I add something for phosphorus? If so, what would you suggest I use. Also, how's my mix sound, should I add anything? Change anything?

    I have the general grasp for the most part but a little help from seasoned growmies never hurts :bongin:

    2 - 5gal buckets full of Peat
    2 - 5gal buckets full of Perlite
    1 - 5gal bucket high quality worm compost
    2 cups Lime
    1cup alfalfa meal
    1cup fish meal
    1cup plant tone
    2cups kelp meal
    3cups azomite
    3/4 cup fish bone meal

    I'm looking forward to organics like you have no idea! Thanks in advance for everyone's time and input :wave:
     
  2. Whats up J! Welcome to the other side!! I think that your mix looks pretty good! If I had a choice for a P amendment...I would go with fish bone meal. Ofcourse the opinions on lime will vary from person to person...but my advice is to just be careful on it. Is it agricultural lime you're using? I only ask because I have seen everything from Ag Lime (which I think is the same as dolomite to hydrated lime (don't use that one). I use oyster shell. I got a huge bag of it from a feed store for approx. $11 and will most likely last me for a very long time. You could also be covered by just going with crab/shrimp meal...just my opinion.
     
  3. Dumdum hit the nail on the head. Drop the lime and add the oyster shell powder and crab meal. And try to source some rock dust too. Other than that u look good homie.

    Sent from my SPH-L900 using Grasscity Forum mobile app

     
  4. Missing some rock dust. Other than that your soil mixture looks solid.
     
  5. Too late to drop the lime bros - it's epsoma garden lime.

    Dumdum - at what rate should I add the FBM? I've already mixed all the amendments and added them to the soil, would I be able to get away with adding it later on like I plan to do with the neem? (I figure 1 cup per 25gal of soil should be ok?) can I get away with doing the same ratio with FBM?

    Beerbrewer - I thought azomite was the same as rock dust? If not, got any good links in where to get some?

    Also, you guys know a good source for neem? That shit is harder to find than Atlantis!


    Thanks for replying! Organics is the shit already! It's hard to get a reply on the other forums but in organics I get a reply every time right off the bat!!
     
  6. Regarding Phosphates from a conversation with LD -

    "The 'Phosphorus makes big flowers' is part & parcel of the cannabis growing lexicon and it is a myth like most of the other ones like bat guano and such

    You will always lose the Phosphorus argument with stoners. Always. Look at my attempts to explain Dolomite Lime - LMAO

    Enzymes, biochemistry in the soil, etc. - that's what makes plants grow. Remember plants are nothing more than Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen with tiny, tiny amounts of macro and micro elements. An examination of a Chlorophyl molecule is all you need to look at and then pop-over and look at a red blood cell - talk about enlightening. The only difference is that plant material contains a single Magnesium atom (one only) in a group of - guess what - Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen and animal cells have a single Iron (Fe) atom.

    Get your brain wrapped around that and the 'feeding of plants' will become crystal clear. You and I can't live on supplements because that's what they are - supplements. When we eat our garden's bounty we're getting enzymes, phytohormones, free-radicals and on and on and on.

    With your EWC and CoM compost about the last thing you need to be concerned about are 'nutes' - your work is done. You can offer information to others but some things simply aren't worth explaining. You're up against decades of misinformation via fertilizer companies, i.e. it's not just grow stores though they've taken things to levels unparalleled.

    Regardless, the need for Phosphorus is a complicated one but I can assure you that the materials you use have the Phosphorus deal covered - kelp, alfalfa, comfrey and in particular the lobster shells. What always gets lost in discussing this or that material is that everything is isolated out - Crab meal for Chitin. Yeah - there's chitin in crab, lobster & shrimp shells - that's established. But what about the 96% Calcium Carbonate content? What about the 2.8% elemental Phosphorus content - should be discussed as well? LMAO

    As usual with everything in this universe - it's about balance. That is why organic farmers and gardeners always have the best food grown with the least amount of fanfare. Compost and worm castings are the 'nutes' we use and 'we' didn't have to do much. Organisms of all kinds and stripes do our work - we just spread their work on our gardens and the plants draw the nutrition needed to produce fruit, vegetables, seeds, etc.

    "Ya don't need Phosphates in your gardens" LD

    J
     
  7. #7 JFlow941, Aug 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2013
    Thanks Jerry! :wave: glad to have you folks around! Thanks for putting my mind at ease regarding phosphorus lol I guess I'm one Of the many that gave into the mainstream bullshit that phosphorus is what makes weed "dank" now I feel like a dupe :smoke: I'm pretty sure this transition is going to be the best decision I've made.
     
  8. "I'm pretty sure this transition is going to be the best decision I've made. "

    There's NO doubt in my mind...

    Good luck pal.

    J
     
  9. #9 JFlow941, Aug 30, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2013
  10. #10 jerry111165, Aug 31, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2013
    "I also ordered some potash and was wondering how much to add to my mix as well"

    First, I'd like to ask you why on this (I'm figuring its Muriat of Potash?) specific element? I'm just wondering here.

    As far as the chamomile goes I'm honestly not familiar with its properties in an organic garden. Hopefully someone else can chime in. Personally I'd rather see you using the natural flowers over the potash but I've never used either in my garden so shouldn't say either way - although I see no need for the potash.

    Don't mean to be a downer or anything like that Jflow.

    J
     
  11. Your not being a downer J, your just keeping it real with me. I'm a total organic noob so any and all advice is welcome bro. I don't mind hearing that I'm wrong. I bought the pot ash (potassium sulfate) thinking it would be a good source of K (0-0-50)? Honestly I had no direct reason for buying it, I just figured I would put as many amendments that I could find into my soil :laughing:

    As for the chamomile, how would I use this? Steep flowers as a tea? Or can I just add the intact flowers to the soil? I read that it enhances flavors in the bud, do you have experience with products that enhance flavor and smell? Again, I just want to make sure I cover all my bases now, I want to continue to grow organically but I want to do it right from the beginning.

    Thanks for all the info Jerry, good or bad this stuff is helpful. Learning to grow weed with nutes is a cake walk but learning to grow without is no walk in the park. These links you provide are all real informative.
     
  12. I don't think that the Potassium Sulfate would make or break things (although I have absolutely no experience with it - whatsoever) providing you only used a small amount. I think LD had a comment on how much to use in the link I provided.

    BALANCE.

    Here's a neat link - http://terpenes.weebly.com/

    I really, really suggest, as a newer organic gardener that you start off simple. Build your soil mix using quality compost/vermicompost and the usual soil amendments you see discussed around these halls. Grow healthy plants - plant health is THE best way to increase terpene production - then experiment from there. Get comfortable with organic gardening and then you can slowly mix it up and try different things - this will ensure success vs experimenting immediately.

    Do a search and also read about Secondary Metabolites - this is directly related.

    Again, this is just my reasoning lol...

    Using almost any plant material in your garden is a good thing. We know that we can break down plant material into its most basic elemental forms by simply soaking it in water for anywhere from several days to several weeks - or more. Top dressing and/or mulching is a great way to introduce the elements in your plant material into your soil. I make mulches with different plant matter - mostly accumulator plans like yarrow, nettles, comfrey - etc, by mixing it (chopped fine) with fresh vermicompost and then mulching several inches thick on top of my soil.

    I'm sorry but I don't have any specific experience with Chamomile - maybe somebody else will chime in?

    Btw - good morning!

    J
     
  13. Chopped Comfrey and Worm Power vermicompost which will be used as a mulch today.

    J image.jpg image.jpg
     
  14.  
    I'd say with your mix as it currently is, you will have plenty of K.  In the grand scheme of things K is not needed in large amounts, and is a very mobile nutrient.  When considering base saturation (a function of CEC), K levels are optimum at 3-5%, compared to Ca, which runs at an optimum range of 60-70% (on average).  I'd return that potassium sulfate.  You don't need it.
     
  15. #17 JFlow941, Aug 31, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2013
    What your saying males perfect sense. I think ill stick to a solid lighty amended soil before jumping too deep in the water. Thanks man! Ill just toss this pot ash on the outdoor flower bed. It was only 4$ no sense crying about it. I guess I confused chamomile with comfrey, what are the benefits of comfrey?

    Ps. Good Afternoon :wave:

    Thanks bro that's really insightful!

    Thanks for that man. I'm just trying to rush into it. Jerry made a good point in saying to stay simple and progress as I get organic exp. right now it's like night and day compared to growing with bottled nutes. I have to slowly unlearn everything I know and learn organics from front to back.
     
  16.  
    If you're going to use that potash on your outdoor flower beds, don't just "dump" it.  If the stuff you have is 0-0-50, that's some serious ass industrial type agriculture/fixing a really deficient soil kinda shit.  I doubt that your outdoor garden needs K either.  But if you really feel that your gardens need it,  make sure to follow the application rates.  Serious mineral imbalance is soils will cause all sorts of issues that are very hard to diagnose and remedy without a soil analysis. 
     
  17.  
     
    Howdy waktoo. If we keep the discussion to vegetable crop plants the fact of the matter is that leaf tissue analysis shows that K is taken up on par with N in virtually every crop species (there are certainly exceptions). This being a perhaps not easily disputed fact then the question perhaps becomes, "ok, so what does the accumulation of minerals in leaf tissue actually mean". What it really indicates is the status of the plant's leafy mineral content at the time of the sample and decades of research has gone into documenting these ratios to form a consensu of sorts as to what constitutes the "best" ratios. This doesn't conflict with your statement because percentage of or amount of, is not my discussion here rather my point is about ratios between N and K. We've all read or heard about the infamous Ca:Mg ratio. Well, there are other equally important elemental ratios between elements other than Ca:Mg.
     
    So timing is everything with tissue analysis but the science guys have determined a "good" ratio of N and K along with many other ratios of minerals and elements being in balance as Jerry indicated. However, potassium is so often overlooked as a major plant element that many soils will lack enough of it for a sustained 4-5 month grow cycle and supplemental K will be necessary through the grow cycle. As was indicated kelp is an outstanding source of K.
     
    Just keep this in mind. Growing with synthetic fertilizers could almost be declared an "exact science" when one takes the effort to ensure proper  balance with synthetic fertilizers. If true then one might also declare organic style growing to be an "inexact science" because mineralization is required to convert the organic materials to plant usable ions (the same form as synthetic fertilizers).
     
    There is no "exact science" per se with organics and as was indicated balance in the container means a lot. However, the science of the matter is that elemental ratios in organics are equally important and a whole lot harder to measure. Just make sure that N and K, are maintained on equilibrium.
     
    There are ~12,000,000 hits on google in the .edu domains on the subject of the importance of the ratio of N and K in the soil. It is important for a healthy grow.  
     
    G'day and G'smoko blades.
     

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