Organic Higher Learning Resources

EVIL T, I know this is a mess, but my text won't format correctly for some reason while I am at work, but here are the retailers in South Carolina. STEVENS PALMETTO NURSERY750 EAST PINE LOG ROADAIKEN, SC 29801 803 648-1322 Other Products -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MEADOW BROOK GARDENS & GIFTS27686 HWY 76 EASTCLINTON, SC 29325 864 938-0405 Other Products -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- COUNTRY BOY'S-GREENVILLE SC1949 WOODRUFF ROADGREENVILLE, SC 29615 864 292-0260 Other Products -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BWI OF GREER1890 SOUTH HWY 14GREER, SC 29650 864-968-8961 Other Products -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BWI OF GREER15 SHELTER DRIVEGREER, SC 29650 864-968-8961 Other Products -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- LICHTENFELT NURSERIES INC947 ANDERSON RIDGE ROADGREER, SC 29651 864-458-9864 Other Products -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DILL'S FARM & GARDEN1845 HWY 178 NORTHHONEA PATH, SC 29654 864 786-6008 Other Products -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GAINES, HOWARD1909 ANDERSON HWYMCCORMICK, SC 29835 706 336-9412 Other Products -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WHITE HARDWARE210 SOUTH MAIN STMCCORMICK, SC 29835 864 465-2200 Other Products -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GARDEN OF GRACE GREENHOUSE2206 CARTER ROADNINETY-SIX, SC 29666 864 543-2971 Other Products -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NURSERIES CAROLINANA143 MIMS GROVE CHURCH ROADNORTH AUGUSTA, SC 29841 803 279-2707 Other Products -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRUE BLUE NURSERY9532 OCEAN HWYPAWLEYS ISLAND, SC 29585 843 237-7012 Other Products -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SOUTHEAST GARDEN CENTER225 OLD GREENVILLE HWYPENDLETON, SC 29670 864 646-7272 Other Products -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- CARSON FARM & GARDEN2616 COLNEL THOMSON HWYSAINT MATTHEWS, SC 29135 803 874-3458 Other Products -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SALUDA FARM & GARDEN SUPPLY508 NORTH MAINS STREETSALUDA, SC 29138 864 445-3100 Other Products -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- HEAD LEE NURSERY INC-DELIVERED2365 BLUE RIDGE BLVDSENECA, SC 29678 864 882-3663 Other Products -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ZONE 7, INC410 SHEEPFARM ROADSENECA, SC 29678 864 882-7771 Other Products -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- COUNTRY BOY'S-TAYLORS SC2917 WADE HAMPTON BLVDTAYLORS, SC 29687 864 292-0260

 

I will check them out.

tks,
Evil T

 

Evilt

Can you find Pro-Mix in your area? They're a company like Sun Gro Horticulture (Sunshine Mixes, Black Gold, et al.) They're based in the Eastern Canada (sort of) whereas Sun Gro is based in British Columbia in Western Canada.

The parent name of the company is Premier Horticulture and if you hit their web site they'll have a dealer locator search deal.

See if their product lines are near you.

LD

 

LD,

I used the locator and found one sunshine distributor near me, however the only product he carries is the one I bought and it is not organic. I called all of the distributors with in a couple hours drive and none of them carry the organic.

I am heading out to the nurseries tomorrow. I have a lot of notes from reading the post on here and I am going to look for an orgainic soil mix with as close as possible to the following: 40% orgainic Coconut Coir, 30% peat moss (orgainic) 10% perlite/10% pumice, 10% Vermiculate.

Are there any substitutes that would be OK for the above listed ingredients?

I am new at this, just started growing because I read so much about the medicinal properties. There are two people in my extented family that I believe can benefit from this.

Read where you collect yeast. That is a great hobby. I have a starter made from wild muscadines.

Thanks,
Evil T

 

The perlite/pumice/vermiculite can all be exchanged for each other. The reason many soil mixes include all three is because of CEC. If you can't find a mix with all three, something with just perlite or pumice will work for ya. (i'd recommend the pumice)

Also you can sub the 40% coir for a mix thats higher in peat moss ~45-55%. These organic soils (ie Black Gold in particular) will contain a mix of local composted peanut hulls, rice hulls, sometimes EWC, and a mix of pumice and mycorrhizal strains.

 

Evil T, you know, while you are out looking, you may find a nursery or two that carry organic potting soils. check out the ingredients in them thoroughly. I have found a couple good nurseries around that have had organic potting soils with all the ingredients us organic peeps like to see sphagnum peat moss, ewc, guano, kelp meal and other organic amendments. Some of these nurseries will have a well established organization making the stuff with the nursery's name on it. For example, I got what I consider a good looking and good growing potting soil with my nursery's name on it, but on the back, at the bottom of the bag it says it is made by EB Stone. Since EB Stone makes a lot of organic products it gave me reason to purchase a couple bags and see how it does. I compared it to a bag of Black Gold and it looks, smells, feels every bit as good. So, read the labels well, even if it is not the exact item you are looking for. Have fun going shopping. I always get pretty pumped to get out and find new nurseries and come across stuff I have been looking for. BTW, great idea bringing the list. JaK

 

... and worse (best) case just make her own from the big box store. Whatever happened to that concept?

 

Possum, I was thinking that as I wrote my story to Evil. Why not? They have the Sphagnum peatmoss, organic potting soils, and usually the vermiculite/pumice/perlite. PLus, all you need is some of the Espoma Organic dry ferts or even the Kelloggs(i.e. Organic Tomato ferts) dry ferts. Nothing wrong with any of those. JaK

 

It was never my intent to recommend one 'brand' over another. It's more about the components, i.e. Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss is Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss regardless of who is packing it.

Look more for the specific ingredient(s) and not the label on the bag.

Both Possum & JaK hit the nail on the head - sourcing Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss is what you want and to that add whatever aeration agent you can easily source, i.e. perlite, pumice and to a very limited degree - vermiculite. There are some very definite health-related issues regarding vermiculite that you can read about on the web. Get the right 'source' and you're good to go.

Premier Horticulture is on the same level of professional soil base products as is Sunshine - they both harvest from the very same peat moss fields in the various growing districts which is heavily controlled by the Peat Moss Association in Canada - much to your benefit as things turn out.

Once again - look for ingredients and not necessarily the brand name and you'll find that your search is fairly straight-forward and pretty easy, IMHO

Peace

LD

 

Great help from all of you.

Just read thru most of the Possuum's "off the shelf" thread, and will take that info with me. I'm heading out tomorrow and will start a thread soon on how my search is going.

I don't think most readers come to "higher learning from Lumperdawgz" to read about my crazy arse trying to find suitable soil. LOL

Thanks again to all of you, ya'll have made me feel welcome to this forum.

Evil T

 

this is amazing thank you, thank you, thank you

 

PT

All of the vermiculite mined and bagged in the USA is safe. The problem has been the imported products out of China. Probably because both California and Oregon are the top 2 states in the area of nursery stock operations we see a lot of 'deals' - it's what is behind these great deals that give some a reason to stop and look more closely.

Same thing with kelp meal, fish meals, seaweed extracts, leonardite, etc. That's why I always advise folks to look at the source and not necessarily the price alone. Good materials cost more than junk.

LD

 

The tremolite asbestos issues associated with vermiculite shouldn't be an issues nowadays if that is what you are referring to. The W.R. Grace mine that caused all the issues has been closed to production since 1990.

Supposedly all the vermiculite produced these days comes from a clean source that is not contaminated with trace levels of tremolite asbestos

FWIW

 

bump this thread! very good info.

I am doing the sourcing side of things out here on the west and I found a couple of things that I wanted to change to the mix listed above (peat, coco, vermiculite, perlite, pumice) based on availability/price, but I don't want to sacrifice something important that I wasn't thinking abuot.

For one, I read that rice hulls can directly replace perlite. I can find heat treated rice hulls for less than $40/yard

Also, horticultural pumice is easy to find and shipping is the only expense. The price is less than $20/yard plus delivery which, if getting a big truckload it is still under $40/yard

Coco is under $40/yard

Peat is hard to find at under $80/yard- I can find the sunshine 3.8cu.ft. bags and I know they make the 155 cu.ft. bags so i'm still working on it.

Vermiculite is something I'm having a hard time with for two reasons. For one, I can haul coco, peat, and rice hulls very easily becasue they are compressed- you can fit like 60 yards in a prius (not really, but i don't need a dump truck). The only things that need dumping are compost, EWC, pumice, and vermiculite. I have EWC and pumice down the streat, so trucking is only moderate. Pumice is lightweight so i can get 20 or 50 yards and it still doesn't change the shipping cost much. Vermiculite is heavy and I can't find a source close to me at all, so it's going to be stupid expensive.

My question, should anyone decide to help me out, is if i'm making sacrifices by going the more practical route on this mix which is say:

40% coco coir
30% peat moss
15% pumice
15% rice hulls

This is not including the compost and earthworm castings which will be a 50/50 mix and constitute 20% of the final soil mix.

Anyone have some words of warning/praise? When I find good canadian peat for under $40/yard I will be able to get everything at under $40 a yard except for earthworm castings. I think I'm still getting a deal on EWC at $300/yard. The total cost is less than $2.50 per "1.5 cu.ft. bag". Some of these bags are seriously like $15 for 1.5 cu.ft. and I actually know a guy who bought 500 yards of potting soil by the bag last year LOL. That's like $200,000 (he actually told me he spent $80,000). If i mixed it for him i could have relieved him of $60,000 and nobody would have been the wiser.

 

HighYa drewbot, just an opine here FWIW, killing time etc. Are you growing outdoors? That's seems like a lot of yardage man! Get ya a cement mixer LOL.

I would flip the pct of coir with peat; 40% peat 30% coir. Don't sweat the vermiculite. Technically it's considered a clay and/or thought of as a mineral and generally is added to potting mixes to help hold water. As an alternative with some added benefit you might consider a low sodium calcined clay and add <10% to your total base mix. This will load up a bunch of anion (negative) charged particles which will increase your potential CEC buffer (if you're not familiar there is alot written about the CEC topic in the O thread here). There are other "clays" that are used in horti/agriculture and a really good loamy soil has around 20% by volume. Something to think about and several options open to you.

I don't know much about coir except to know there's some inherent challenges using it. I think most challenges can be overcome with preperation of the coir before adding it to the soil mix. I also believe there are some sodium considerations with some sources of coir which might be mitigated also by a prep stage. SunGro uses coir in some of their line of potting mixes and that's a huge endorsement in my thought processes. They're kind of at the tip of the spear when it comes to potting soils.

30% areation looks good as well.

Can you source quality compost (15% - 20% by volume)

"Words for the wise"...? You get what you pay for generally speaking. Validate your sources and ensure you truly are "getting your money's worth", esp with the EWC. You want a biologically active EWC from a trusted source (what did the worms eat to produce the casings) and if you're paying $300 a yard not only is that a whole bunch of EWC, you don't want goop or sludge. You might spend better money on the EWC by purchasing a half pallet or similar. With some negotiating you can get the price down to cost +~15% or so. That ain't bad. In terms of the percentages you would add to a yard of base soil mix you'll probably come out ahead and won't need to worry how you're going to keep 1/2 - 3/4 yard of EWC "fresh" (that's about how much you'll have left from a yard. You only need 15% - 20% +/- by volume).

Peace at 'cha!

 

ill be referencing this guide constantly until i get my organics dialed in completely.. and probably even still then .. 1000+ rep to u and lumper.

 

[quote="Lumperdawgz']

Breakdown, uses, and frequency.


The addition of alfafla meal (or any other seed meal) will provide long-term food for the bacteria to break down.

[/quote]

Help me out here I am still learning

I read that other seed meals may be substituted for alfalfa meal. But alfalfa meal has the most available elements. Does that mean alfalfa meal is a greater food source then flax seed or corn seed meal? Should they still be included for diversity?

I just purchased some quaker yellow corn meal that contains Niacin, Riboflavin, Thiamin, and Folic acid. Can that be used in my AACT?

Why can't you use humic acids as a foliar feed?

Also, is there anything wrong with adding and AACT to a soil like fox farms? My gals are in flowering and seem deficient. However, I haven't given any soil amendments, only watering. Or should I just continue feeding with seed meals and molasses occasionally to keep the microbes alive?

 

The molecule size of humic acids is too large to make it's way into the plants stoma, hence the use of fulvic acid (smaller molecule size).