Organic Higher Learning Resources

Discussion in 'Growing Organic Marijuana' started by Chunk, Jul 31, 2010.

  1. NEED HELP


    Hello everyone I have bought a 50# bag of horticultural humate. Would this work in the same way as humus or would it be to powerful. From what info I can gather is that humates are an older form of humus. I don't want to over do the mix. By the mix I mean
    1/3 peat moss
    1/3 humus
    1/3 aeration material
    2-3 cups of dry Fert PER 7.5 gallons total mix.



    The 50# bag was only 14 bucks. I just can't see it being used in the same way as EWC.
    From what I can tell it is definitely a great thing to have in your mix I just want to get the recipe close.



    Thank you for the help
     
  2. Got a good reply.


    TY CHUNK
     
  3. #303 jerry111165, Sep 21, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 21, 2015
    No - do not think of these type of "humates" the same as you would "humus". I have a small sack of Menefee Humates at home that I had bought some years ago and it is used more in small amounts as a soil conditioner, and not as a percentage of your soil mix. These "humates" are easy to overuse because they can be high in Humic Acids which will chelate nutrients in your soil, and if overused will burn your plants. Here is a description of the Menefee Humates, which I'm sure is at least similar to what you have -


    "Menefee Humate ®Granular all natural carbon, trace mineral, and humic acid based soil conditioner that acts as a organic chelator, microbial stimulator, and source of vital micronutrients. It has a unique fresh water carbon matrix incorporating a high concentration of organic acids, specifically humic and fulvic acids, which improves the plants ability to take in vital nutrients. OMRI Listed for use in Organic Production."


    And


    Menefee Humates Hundreds of millions of years ago the lush rainforests and tropical swamplands of Precambrian New Mexico produced plant matter that, through millions of years of composting and burial under layers of water and sand, metamorphosed into the coal-like material of the Menefee formation. Tectonic and volcanic activity brought it back to the surface and exposed the layer for mining. Humates contain 65% humic acid in a carbon matrix to chelate minerals and nutrients making them more easily available to soil microorganisms and plants. Extensive tests at agricultural stations have shown marked crop improvement when Menefee Humates were applied. Use 6-10#/1000 sq ft or 250-400#/acre/year in several applications and incorporate into the soil surface for best results. OMRI"


    So go easy with this - just like with anything else. I would max out at a half cup/CF of soil mix and maybe even (much) less. The few times that I have used it I've just scratched a little into the surface of my soil but keep in mind - the soils that we make are already very high in Humic acids due to the compost/vermicompost we use so to add much more it's very easy to over do it.


    J
     
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  4. #304 Possuum, Oct 5, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 5, 2015
    .
    2500 +reps Jerry mate
    .
    RE: "humates" in general, they do NOT belong in container gardening. That material is adapted for agriculture and horticulture, i.e. outdoor use. I've used humate material in a container and screwed the pooch. The real understanding should be that 'humate' is humic acid (pH ~2.0) in a hardened granular form. It has the same properties and will chelate metallic elements et. al. just like humic acid does.
    .
    As J indicated humus and humic like substances (decaying organic matter) is not the same as humate. And FWIW while on the subject of humate (humic aciid) one doesn't need fulvic acid in their container plant either. Using FA in a container plant is another good opportunity to make some 'thing(s)' go wrong.
    .
    There's better ways to a mo simpla grow... [​IMG]
     
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  5. #305 Crapping Bear, Oct 25, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2015
    I hope that I am not over-stepping any sort of boundaries by posting this here.. I have utmost respect for this wise and generous character who's screen name was LD/Cootz. (God bless you, Lumperdawg) If this is not the appropriate thread for this information (I truly mean it when say that I mean no disrespect to LD or the man who started this thread) please feel free to delete it or move it to the appropriate place (if it hasn't already been said)
    'Bio-char' increases available humates, reduces bio-availability of harmful heavy metals, doesn't get overly acidic as outbreaks down, and check it out: unlike sphagnum/"Alaska humus" (AH seemed to be a decent product when i bought some a few years ago; but the last batch that I bought looks , feels, and smells like someover-priced moss. The other thing is that "AH" is not a sustainable.) 'bio-char' (fancy word for wood that was supposedly burned at a precise temp [which company manufacturing a good product? Any suggestions?]) apparently sustains AMF pretty well; which with the assistance of protozoa, has been shown to increase P and K uptake by as much as 80%. 'Terra Preta' (I'm not Portuguese or Spanish or whatever the hell this word is; so, I'm sure I'm probably misspelling it) soil is said to have the ability to sequester N directly from the atmosphere like inoculated legumes or clover.. and has a stronger negative charge (CEC) than sphagnum (I.e. keeps the postively charged ions [N, Ca, Mg, ect.] in the soil where they belong)
    A few things to keep in mind: Terra Pretta probably won't have these magical nitrogen-fixing properties in 5 gallon containers. I don't believe that the charge in charcoal is strong enough to make nutrients like N inaccessible to the plant as some people would say. That doesn't make sense to me. It DOES make sense that it would need to cook longer(carbon may lock up N for a short time) ..and alittle more bat poopoo than the original LD coco mix (to balance out the C:N ratio) As the Possom pointed out: this 'terra preta' is not so much designed for small containers. This type of soil is probably best suited for large raised beds/massive trees. Sorry if this post is scattered/unorganized/hard to follow. And again: no disrespect to LD is intended with this post. I don't know near as much as he does. I'm not trying to give anyone the impression that im smart or educated by posting this stuff. I'm really not (smart or educated) Infact, I'm just a dumb Okie that's probably sharing things that have already been posted on this site (because I'm new here; and didn't see the existing thread).. but also because I'm hoping that one of you might be able to tell me which (biochar) brands are best. Is there anyone here using it?
     
  6. #306 Crapping Bear, Oct 25, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2015
    BCSR (base cation soil ratio) - 1923? ← Am I posting this stuff in the wrong thread?
     
  7. #307 Crapping Bear, Oct 26, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2015
    Please, ignore my posts, guys. It's the time of the year where I feel like a new or infrequent smoker (retarded) because I have all of these new varieties that I have no tolerance to. I was never exactly 'bright' to begin with..and this weed that im smoking has cut my IQ in half.
     
  8. I use black owl biochar. Just the plain uncharged one. Soaked it in chicken crap slurry till all the water evaporated and then added it to my soil. If you use char make sure you charge it or it will weaken the nitrogen content of your soil. HTH
     
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  9. Here and gone. Guess whatever was answered.

    Wet
     
  10. Can anyone inform me of a bloom nute. other than guano? And what's
    the benefit of MBP ? Thanks in advance.

    High howmanymoreyrs,

    Can you please inform me of a few options for a bloom nute.
    other than bat guano? Also can you tell me what purpose
    MBP serves? Any info is appreciated. THANKS....
    Budcyclo



    Sent from my LGLK430 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
     
  11. How many droppers is safe to use per gallon of pure rosemary essential oil as ipm?
     

  12. @jonhova ,
    @GiMiK has a couple of threads on the use of EO's and one specifically for Rosemary Oil.

    "2.5 mL of Pure Rosemary Oil
    2.5 mL (roughly) of cold pressed neem oil
    3-4mL of Dyna Gro Pro Tekt (liquid silica)

    Add 1 L (or 1 quart) of clean, warm water to this mix in your sprayer, shake well and apply."


    Kills mites and eggs on contact, and the phytotoxicity of rosemary is roughly 12 hours. Still smells like rosemary for a day or so in my room after I spray thoroughly, though that's not a bad thing. :D


    Essential Oils - A Review

    Eugenol - Clove Oil | Is it worthwhile?

    HTH
     
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  13. Hi will sulphate of potash do instead of biochar in the soil mix ...or is it totally different thanks in advance ????
     
  14. Totally different. About the only similarity between the 2 would be the bags they came in.
     
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  15. Cheers for clearing the fog....im finding it difficult to get biochar and gypsum here...i found calcium nitrate but i suppose thats no good either.....
     
  16. for biochar you can use plain ol barbeque charcoal. just make sure to use one thats made of whole wood (aka lump charcoal/ hardwood charcoal) and not the charcoal briquettes. you want to smash it up, i used a bucket and a 2x2, or you can use an old meat grinder like this guy here:


    high tech version:


    were you not able to find gypsum supplier in spain?
     
  17. IMG_2698.JPG
    Cheers scooby....good back up info that....nobody had calcium sulphate only calcium nitrate....the only thing on amazon spain is something called (us gypsum) photo here..is this any good or not ????
     
  18. idk what that is, maybe someone else can say.

    what about shipping from amazon usa? or if they dont ship you could look for a mail forwarding service that ships from the u.s to spain. im sure if you google "forwarding service from u.s.a" on google you will find one local to you. they give you a U.S address to use on your amazon shopping so you can order anything. shipping costs more so i only use this for select items, but a 6lb bag of gypsum should last you quite a while so its not so much in the big picture.
     

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