Organic Cloning

Discussion in 'Growing Organic Marijuana' started by jerry111165, Dec 23, 2011.

  1. This is a pretty important part of all of our organic gardens - being able to take and successfully root cuttings from our favorite varieties of flowers. I don't see an awful lot of reference to this here in the Organic gardening forums, and would be very interested in hearing how organic folks have the best success, what products are used - etc.

    Right now I am using little peat cubes and watering with Aloe, but just started this method. I'll keep ya'll posted as to the results.


  2. Jerry

    I root cuttings in 2 different ways - one for my own garden and I do the extra for dropping off at the clinics which pass out cuttings to new MMJ patients. That's their theory anyway though it's come to my attention that 2 different strains that came out of my garden are being sold at 2 different clinics but that's another story.

    I won't bore you with how I do cuttings for my own garden because it breaks each and every rule so why go there, eh? LOL

    For cuttings that are going to be passed out, I go with some kind of product that can be used in most growing processes - organic, 'soil' as defined grow stores, hydroponics, etc. which usually means Grodan rockwool cubes. Not because they're the best - they probably aren't but what they are is inert meaning that it's almost impossible to have mold issues (i.e. damping off), etc.

    Rooting products? It doesn't matter. They all contain 1 or more of the 3 standard commercial rooting compounds. Pick your poison.

    Some claim that gels are 'tits up' so go with that. Others claim that hitting with massive amounts of IBA is the best way to go so pick-up some Dip-n-Grow. Others claim that soaking willow shoots in water is the only way to go - so head out and see how you do on that deal.

    But before you go nuts I'll offer you an experience I had earlier this year. Chunkdaddyo and I were waxing philosophically about rooting plants and I agreed to prove my contention that it doesn't matter much how you get there.

    The experiment went like this - I took some unfiltered wild honey from the farmer's market and that was my 'rooting gel' - nothing was added. I took 1" Grodan rockwool cubes and soaked them in a glass of water from the tap. I didn't aerate it to remove any chlorine, I didn't check the f*cking pH - nothing.

    True to form for my bagseed weed that I grow, 12 days later the cubes were covered with massive root development.


  3. OMG!!!



    Ok - got that outta my system...hehehe

    so, what do you think of my aloe/water for the cuttings in the little peat cubes? Will that work ok? Also, I mist them gently to help w/ humidity - its dry in my house due to the massive million btu outdoor wood boiler we run. because its so dry, I find the cuttings wilt quickly if I dont mist.

    Can or will it hurt to put a tiny bit of aloe in the misting sprayer?

    When I used to do the hydro thing I wouldnt think twice about throwing a little bit of General Hydroponics grow juice in the cutting water - to help feed them a tiny bit during the cutting-to-root interim period, but now that I'm organic I'm not sure which way to go in that aspect.

    Will the aloe water help keep them lightly fed?

    I think that drying out is my biggest issue while the heat is on and the house is too dry this time of year.

    • Like Like x 1
  4. ive heard lots of people say the willow shoots work, but you have to do it in the spring. this is when the hormone is at it's highest levels.

    funny you posted this, jerry. me and skunk were talking about it for awhile in PMs.

    heres what she does. shell probablly be happy with me putting this up here too, so she wont have to type it :smoke:

    would great white mycorise or orca be an ok alternative to bio-ag's VAM? i dont have any GWS to see the exact species of bacteria that it contains. i know the orca contains a few strains of endomycorrhizae but it doesnt contain all that bio-ag has. i guess i can experiment, i just hate getting bad results if it wont work.

    gonna try to use the honey next time. with me moving everything is kinda hectic, so i had to bite the bullet and use rootech.......

  5. LD, Jerry,

    no EWC?
  6. Irie, for me, the ewc's were simply too wet + heavy so I am going (right now) with the little peat plugs. Once I have roots, I'll transplant into a mix that has them.

    OSU, I've never found the mycorrhizae to do much for me at that point - don't get me wrong, once there's roots I'll dust the clones in some VAM...

    Gonna have to look into the honey thing. I like that idea to seal up the end of the cut.

  7. Damn. This thread came just a day or two late for me haha. I spent a while looking around for info about taking organic clones and thought I had it all figured out.

    I am not much a fan of rockwool for multiple reasons so I decided to try to clone into a mix of Sphagnum Peat Moss, Rice Hulls, and EWC. But now that Jerry mentions it, the mix does seem a bit heavy.

    I compiled a recipe for my own cloning gel from multiple different threads. I ended up using a mix of Lily of The Desert (Preservative Free) Aloe Vera Juice (because of its Salicylic acid), Dr. Earths Kelp Meal (Compounds like Indole-3-acetic acid (IAA), Indole-3-butyric acid (IBA), 4-Chloroindole-3-acetic acid and Phenylacetic acid which are auxins), and some Raw Honey from the health food store (Contains a slew of enzymes, amino acids and also contain compounds which function as a biofungicide). LD mentions this recipe in a grow journal from a while back and it sounded pretty awesome to me. I wish I could have picked up some Dip-Gel so I could have turned my mix into a real gel but the honey worked to the extent that I needed it too haha.

    I just took my cuts like I normally would. I let them all soak in a glass of water/aloe vera while I work on each individual cutting. After I trim up the leaves and cut the 45 I rubbed the tip in the mix of aloe vera, kelp meal, and honey. Then just stuck the cutting into little 3" pots full of my Sphagnum mix. I have 4 cuttings in my humidity dome right now and misted with my first AACT I've made yesterday but have switched to plain water now. I hope the cuts survive! The medium does seem a bit wet. They are just an experiment though, and the Mama is looking beautiful. It is amazing how big the leaves are for how small she is haha. Bonsai moms FTW!!!

    (Sorry to get off topic Jerry. I've been doing a lot of work lately that I'm excited about but should start my own thread!)
  8. I don't always clone, but when I do I use peat pellets and Olivia's cloning solution. I usually get in the 90+% range, and depending on strain I see roots in 5 to 9 days.
  9. I cheat. I use a power cloner.
  10. For cuttings that I intend to use in my garden the process is to take the cuttings, soak in water with Pro-TeKt for a few minutes and place them in my potting soil mix in beer cups.

    That's it.

  11. If it isn't considered spamming I have a link to a video from Cornel (or Purdue) University on this very subject - vemicompost in seedlings and cuttings in a commercial nursery operation.

    I'd better check with Chunk on that one because I've posted it before.

    But to answer your question directly, the disease-suppression factor in castings, along with the enzyme exudes from the worm's skins ("vermiwash") all contribute to the development of roots along the cutting's shaft.

    Where the dynamic comes in with commercial root compounds is that they go with one single rooting agent produced in labs. Both vermicompost and in particular kelp meal contain all of these rooting compounds in an organic form and like most plant compounds they work in unison.

    Part of this are expectations among growers. If you want the fastest roots that I know of - use one of the aeroponic machines (EZ Cloner for example).

    You want to use the 4,000 year old methods from the Chinese then you use soil.

    If you feel that rooting compounds are an absolutely necessity and you can live with the labels warning that these products are not for food production - forget organic vs. conventional. They're warning against using it on any food plant.

    NAA which is a popular rooting agent in the grow store products is a pesticide. Open a bottle of Dip-n-Grow sometime and see what IBA is all about.

    By the way, the active compound in Willow buds is Salicyclic acid. Aloe Vera extract contains higher levels of this compound and I'm thinking that it's probably easier to source than climbing trees to clip off Willow buds.


  12. Thanks! That's the one I was thinking about.

  13. hey LD what if climbing trees is your thing? :smoke:

    although the aloe vera sounds like a better choice, there is a ginormous willow tree growing in my parent's yard. just for shits n gigs ill go out there in the spring and cut some buds to give it a shot. although the aloe vera extract doesnt cost too much money, this way will be free & somthing new and cool to do.

  14. About how long does it take to root? I took a cut off of my sweet deep grapefruit dipped in some kelp extract then some myco then straight into coco in a small styrofoam cup. I then put it into a ziplock bag. It's been 12 days so far.

  15. I will ship you some vam for's the shit!!!
    pm me
  16. I hate to admit it, but i've started cuts in a glass with tap water, stuck in a kitchen window. Of course this was back in the day, and there were maybe 15-20% die offs. I'd just put the cuts in water till I seen roots, then stuck them in beer cups and potting soil. They got a maxicrop shot or two then went out in the woods, lol. Then to make matters worse they went in native sandy soil and were fed MG. I did eventually improve my methods a smidgen though.....MIW
  17. This is all onfo I was looking for. I'll be back in tomorrow when I have more time.

    Thanks -


  18. :)
    Thanks for the laugh.

    Me too. Many years of me too...

  19. Aloe huh? hmmm...
    I have this willow next door down, I have hike down to it but it's branches are all on the floor so I more stoop to snip off the ends. We have been discussing cloning and other willow uses, we knew about the salicylic acid, and my mother always used apirin to assist cloning, but there is also that auxin that we wondered if it could be utilized. It isn't water soluble, is etoh soluble tho, and it's that growth hormone/auxin compound that is located in growing tips more in spring than any other time. We were wondering if we harvest some actively growing tips this coming spring, and isolated the compound and add it, would it increase the growth rate or root making rate of a plant in veg? What do you think?

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