OK my first grow need a little or a LOT of help please

Discussion in 'Indoor Marijuana Growing' started by k9oky, Nov 2, 2002.

  1. OK this is my first grow. I have two female plants both northern lights (clones) which were given to me. I received them in great condition. They were just under three quarters of a foot high and had been used to being grown indoors and in containers. They were given to me in two small plasic milk containers. I aquired two plant pots (look like 3 litre pots) and made a mix for my soil. I used B'cuzz Bio-aarde Substraat Bio Soil and mixed in some little spongy cubes (absorbing water) and some little red ceramic spheres for better drainage. I put an inch layer of the red ceramic spheres at the bottom of the plant pots covering the holes (still drainage though) and added the soil mix to about 1.5 inches from the top of the pots. I then carefully extracted the two plants from their milk containers which slid out easily (holding upside down) and I could see a few roots which looked healthy. I then gently bedded the plants into their new gowing mediums and covered the top with soil and put 1.5 inches of the red ceramic spheres on the top.

    I made up two buckets of fertiliser. The first bucket was just for washing-through the plant, so it was loads of water and a tiny bit of fertiliser and the second bucket was loads of water with a little more fertiliser. The fertilser I am using is Terra Vega for vegitation it is a single bottle fertilser (as you all know). I made up the second bucket with a concentration of 12.5ml of feriliser to 5 litres of water - the recommended dose on the bottle is 25ml per 5 litres. I then tested the Ph and it was far too acidic so I added a tiny quantity of Ph up which then resolved the solution to a Ph of around 6.5. I put both containers in the rear of my growing room to absorb some of the heat for warmer water and cooler grow room.

    I rounded the plants together and firstly washed them both through with the first bucket of really weak feriliser. I washed them through with the pot size (3 litres) of this solution two times and let all the excess fall from the bottom. Then left them to finish draining for 15 minutes. Then I added the fertilser which was from the second bucket I made up. I added about 2 litres of the fertiliser into each 3 litre pot quite a bit drained through then placed them onto run-off trays, then put them in the grow room.

    The grow room is not ideal in terms of air circulation but it is about 3.5 foot by 3.5 foot and is self-contained apart from a door directly on the front. I have a 400w sodium bulb with reflector etc and is entirely coated in proper reflective material (cant remember the name). The bulb is exactly 1 foot above the top of the plants. The plants were then subject to a light cycle of 18 hours on and 6 hours off per day. The door opens onto a unused room and that room has two windows at either end so I leave them open to cool down the grow room and provide some kind of circulation (leaving the grow room door open slightly and waft it a few times a day). Im not sure but I think the circulation is not great in my grow room but i'm not quite sure but I cant attatch an extractor fan because there is no place that the extracted air to go. I have a fan in there too which does not blow directly onto the plants. The temperature in the grow room is about 85 degrees at the highest during the day and with a little wafting drops to about 80 degrees. But the majority of the time it is at 85 degrees. At night the temperature is about 70 degrees. I dont think it is very humid in the grow room, but again I'm not too sure.

    [This i getting quite long now - sorry but dont want to miss anything]

    So the plants went straight into this grow room under their light cycle with their fertaliser etc as mentioned above. I began noticing new shoots developing after the fourth day and I was all happy.

    I had no idea how often to water so I read that you should let the medium dry then water again. The medium seemed dry on the third day but im not too sure because I could only feel about 2 inches down (not disturbing the roots) but that felt pretty dry. So on the fifth morning just before their light cycle started I decided to water. I watered exactly the same as 4 paragraphs above apart from I washed the medium through with the weak fertiliser solution (3 litres per 3 litre pot) only once left for 15 minutes then applied the same amount of fertilser as above (2 litres in each 3 litre pot).

    The plants have been growing in these conditions for just over a month now and have been washed through then watered/fertilsed every third day. The first 3 weeks I could see a little growth and then the past 2 weeks the growth has been very slow. Each plant is now exactly a foot in height.

    The plants are ill visually. After the second week I could see that the leaves were brown at their tips and this developed more and more but now have got less/none. And they seem to droop a little pointing downwards at their tips or curling under at their tips. At the beginning of the third week I prosponed the watering a day longer (4 days). In the morning of the fourth day just before watering I found that overnight the plants leaves had whitened/yellowed. A little more of the bottom leaves, a little of the middle leaves and a couple of the top leaves, a few of the new leaves and a couple of the old leaves had all shown the same symptoms. About a quarter of the plant showed these symptoms. I then removed some of the majorly white/yellow leaves but kept some of them on the plant and then continued to water with my original 3 day watering cycle up until now (about 3 weeks). I find that quite often I get a sudden attack overnight of more yellow leaves then they dont seem to get any more yellow until suddenly another attack mostly overnight. Growth has not stopped but it might as well have done.

    Today, for example, the plants look as follows, 1 foot high fairly bushy with new shoots appearing but very very slow growth in general. They have quite a sturdy stem but at the bottom seems to have a slight tree-like texture, and about a quarter of a foot above where the tree-like texture stops there are couple of deep reddish purple lines which follow the stem up to the top. All of the shoots stems which are off the main stem are reddish purple in colour. There are a about 4 leaves which are yellow in colour and there are slighly more which are green with a little yellow that turns into yellow at the tips. If I look at the underside of a normal green coloured leaf from the plant I find that the three veins are normal greeny colour at the tip but turning reddish purple as working towards the stem. If I look at the underside of a yellow leaf the three veins are white in colour all the way to the end of their little stem. Looking at the top of every leaf on the plant where the little stem joins the leaf there is a little dark red/purple spot.

    Sorry for the length of this waffle but please read carefully and hopefully I hould get some expertise from some of you which I will soak up like a sponge. I really want to keep these plants going if I can just for experiments sake.


    Thanks for looking
     
  2. Hello there...

    Sounds like youve been busy... first step ( a must) head to www.overgrow.com/faq and read all thie info you can on watering and fertilizing regimens... sounds to me as though you are watering too often with too much. it is difficult to tell what is wrong with ones plant just by description, yellowing of the leaves could mean deficiency of nitrogen, then again it could mean excess nitro... the latter seems plausible here. you have the right idea about watering, stick your finger in to about an inch depth and if its dry, you can water, so that the soil has a feel of a wringed out sponge (it should never be soaking wet) i would cut back on watering, establish a fert shedual, and go from there. ( some people only fertilize a few times during the whole cycle of growth, you must use care or you may build salt levels up...not good.) your lighting sounds fine, perhaps the browning of the tips could be from lamp burns? try raising the light a few inches if this is the case (about 18 inches high to start with from what i know, then gradually lower) temp is a bit high, drop it down to aaround 75 F. night cycle should be 10 degrees lower than this, 85 is a bit high. keep the fan going also, and dont hesitate to have it blow on your plants for a few each day (as long as its not a thousand mile an hour stream of air) as this helps to evaporate toxins and strengthen the stems....hope this halps a bit, sounds like itll be ok, read up some more, overgrow is an excellent source, anymore questions you have though, dont hesitate to ask.

    take care.
     
  3. OK thanks for the advice.

    My soil mix has no addiditives (eg dolomite lime, bonemeal etc) in it, is this OK? If not then why do people add these kinds of additives?

    So I am not supposed to be washing through every time then fertilising every water. It will not take long for salt build ups to occurr if I am fertilising every water - I guess?

    Perhaps there could be too much salt in the medium which is preventing the roots from absorbing Potassium. Which could be why I kept getting burned tips and edges because the leaves couldnt transpire as much water? But since I was washing-through each time surely that would remove these salt build-ups.

    Are there disadvantages of washing the plant through? Maybe disturning root system?

    Does my 3 day watering cycle sound about right for these pots and light and size of plants? Any suggestion about a fertiliser schedule?

    The temperature I can not do anything about can keep it stable during the day at 80 degrees. Will this be OK is there a lot more chance of getting funghi attacks? Are there any problems with growth at these temperatures? It is just not possible for me to fit an extraction unit there.
     
  4. SuiJuris is right about the light, usual rule of thumb is 400wdivided by 10 = 40cm..=approx 17" or something like that.....i also have the same problem with the temp of the hps in a small grow room, however i have been reading up on how the high temperture can be o.k. as long as you have co2 supplement.....hope the following bit helps......Peace out...Sid


    Proper temperature is one highly variable factor. Most books state optimum grow temperature to be 70-80 degrees, but many list extenuating circumstances that allow temperatures to go higher. Assuming genetics is not a factor, plants seem to be able to absorb more light at higher temps, perhaps up to 90 degrees. High light and CO2 levels could make this go as high as 95 degrees for increased growth speed.* An optimum of 95 degrees is new data that assumes very-high light, CO2 enrichment of 1500 ppm and good regular venting to keep humidity down. It is not clear if these temperature will reduce potency in flowers. It may be a good idea to reduce temperatures once flowering has started, to preserve potency, even if it does reduce growth speed. But higher temperatures will make plants grow vegetatively much faster, by exciting the plants metabolism, assuming the required levels of CO2 and light are available, and humidity is not allowed to get too high.
    With normal levels of CO2, in a well vented space, 90 degrees would seem to be the absolute max, while 85 may be closer to optimum, even with a great deal of light available. Do not let the room temperature get over 35 C (95 F) as this hurts growth. Optimal temperature is 27-30 C (80-86 F) if you have strong light with no CO2 enrichment. Less than 21 C (70 F) is too cold for good growth.
    Low temperatures at night are OK down to about 60 degrees outdoors, then start to effect the growth in a big way. Mid 50's will cause mild shock and 40's will kill your plants with repeated exposure. Keep your plants warm, especially the roots. Elevate pots if you think the ground is sucking the heat out of the roots. This is an issue if you have a slab or other type of cold floor.
    As temperature goes up, so does the ability of the air to hold water, thus reducing humidity, so a higher average temperature should reduce risk of fungus.
    Contrary to many reports, high humidity is not good for plants except during germination and rooting. Lower humidity levels help the plant transpire CO2 and reduce risk of molds during flowering.
    Studies indicate the potency of buds goes down as the temperature goes up, so it is important to see that the plants do not get too hot during flowering cycles.
    * D. Gold: CO2, Temperature and Humidity, 1991 Edited by E. Rosenthal.
     
  5. OK thanks for the advice.

    My soil mix has no addiditives (eg dolomite lime, bonemeal etc) in it, is this OK? If not then why do people add these kinds of additives?

    - Soil additives such as these (such as lime) are for increasing or decreasing ph levels. you will have to do some research yourself on adding these. a good mix is 2/3 soil to 1/3 perlite, it has worked for me, dont get crazy into soil mixes on your first grow. so to answer, i think youll be fine just as you are.

    So I am not supposed to be washing through every time then fertilising every water. It will not take long for salt build ups to occurr if I am fertilising every water - I guess?

    - according to your post you were watering every 3 days, this is alot, on top of this you are fertilizing every watering. This is alot of fertilizer, i would stop. your soil mix has plenty of nutrients in it to take care of your plant for a while in the first place, and like i said many people only fertilize only a few times during the whole cycle of growth. stop watering ever three days, to check if it needs watering, stick your finger in the soil about 1 - 2 inches down, if it feels dry, ad enough water to evenly moisten the soil thoroughly, so that it has the feel of a wringed out sponge, overwatering causes problems, try this from now on.

    Perhaps there could be too much salt in the medium which is preventing the roots from absorbing Potassium. Which could be why I kept getting burned tips and edges because the leaves couldnt transpire as much water? But since I was washing-through each time surely that would remove these salt build-ups.

    - It does sound like you have fertilizer burn, too much nitrogen, adding the over watering and because of exsessive water you probably have poor soil aeration (compaction of the soil)... transpiration allows built up toxins to be released through the stomata on the underside of the leaves. you can aid this by putting a fan on your plants. i do not think the cause is related to inadequate transpiration.

    Are there disadvantages of washing the plant through? Maybe disturning root system?

    - it can disturb the root system when you excessisvely wash it through, as well as the other aformentioned results.
    there is a time for doing so, such as when you have salt buildups (over fertilizing)


    Does my 3 day watering cycle sound about right for these pots and light and size of plants? Any suggestion about a fertiliser schedule?

    - A good fertilizing schedule is the one posted on your fertilizer ;-) seriously though.
    remember, you need not fert every watering, and really you should not worry too much about a yellow leaf and or a brown spot here or there (for future reference)... its just not practical to try and fix every little imperfection, as well as being close to impossible. try some of the things i suggest and see where that gets you.


    The temperature I can not do anything about can keep it stable during the day at 80 degrees. Will this be OK is there a lot more chance of getting funghi attacks? Are there any problems with growth at these temperatures? It is just not possible for me to fit an extraction unit there.

    - This has been answered already...good response too. so i think i will go grab me a cup a coffee now, take care, and cut back the water and fert!.

    Ave.
     
  6. my homey! you are driving your plants insane.

    its like eating 20 hits of acid after reaching a peak on 5.

    just overdone.

    we water only as needed, sometimes letting the plants loose a little stability even due to almost running out of water, this encourages the root system to KEEP MOVING and the plant to respond to this by KEEP growing.

    my homey who taught me the little i know said that overwatering/fert is the tnumber one killer of dead pot today.

    so, also...

    you should really only need to water every three days, and then, yu should only need to put between 1/4-1cup of water. every 10 days, give it a jolt of 15-5-5, which i acheive with miracid 30-10-10, run half of the level of their indoor formulae.

    also, 400wt. hps, with reflector= 16-18" maximum, until the last week or so, then maybe closer or further depending on the make-up of the buds themselves, their pistles, etc.


    oh, and one more thing,

    GOOD LUCK

    stop watering for about 6 days, then slowly re-introduce straight water.

    dont use chlorine remover, you've done too much damage already.


    add some iron.


     
  7. Hey Leaden,
    This thread is 4 years old. Those plants were smoked up years ago.
     
  8. sorry. im simply very excited to join such a community.
    im getting very giddy about my girls.
    and these are just he practice runs of various strains of KB buddies have made(incorrectly-obviously-cuz i have their seeds,lol)

    no seeds for me baby!

    i got 11 sensi's downstais!

    yeah.

     

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