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Oil and Syrup

Discussion in 'Weed Edibles' started by Tokintb12, Jul 26, 2022.


  1. Water cure is very effective for removing some nasty compounds and greatly reduces the plant taste
    The material still soaks in the water and will carry some of nasty compounds during the transfer out of the container so the effectiveness drops off for me
    However this may be enough of a scrub for most people if they are doing 3.5g or less

    The dry has to be complete and this is important as it can affect the decarb
    Do not decarb before a water cure!!!

    I would recommend a water cure to anybody doing edibles
    Start with a gram and pick any number of methods
    Think I did a week with a daily change in distilled water
    I used a French press to do it so the flower did not move much and trichome loss could be minimized

    Side Note
    I have to deal with the entourage effect which I'm sure I scrub out with the celite and carbonX
    Adding terpenes back in is tricky and can ruin flavor profiles of any food you infuse so it will take a bit before I figure it out
    I'm making mostly syrup now, folks keep there oil in the freezer and use it sparingly due to the 11hydroxy thc and the sedation

    Forgive the disjointed reply as I'm lit from dosing the new syrup which needs a very tiny amount to f up your day

    All the R&D is done and folks love to spoon it into a little plastic container and thin it with water then dose a drink or just leave it plain and mix into your ice cream desert or pull a little frosting off the cake and mix in the syrup then drizzle it onto the exposed cake surface
    99% just kinda shotgun it as the cannabis flavor is barely there and gets overpowered by the sugar quickly

    I'm planning on doing an rso dart video to show how easy it is to infuse using commercial concentrates
    800+mg for $60 20-25 edibles at roughly 30mg
    Throw in another $20 and you have your ingredients to make edibles at $4-$6 a 30mg dose
    IMG_20220925_231703.jpg IMG_20220925_231714.jpg

    The dart on the left
    More cbd cultivars and a cbg cultivar
    I'm looking at these for medicinal products
    I'm going to vape them, extract them, make oils and start exploring using these cultivars to counter my green outs when I'm doing edible dosing tests
    My wife uses thunder struck which is 10%thc/15%cbd in the form of edible chocolates
    They provide sedation and an undisturbed sleep to a person who does not use substances, not even coffee/tea
    Minimal intoxication if the dose is right (chocolates are flat and uneven sometimes)
    Did a round of cbd (hemp flower) chocolates against the thc/cbd (thunderstruck) chocolates
    Thunder struck were better but the decarb of the hemp flower may have been off
     
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  2. That is is some serious stoner word salad up there.....too stoned to edit it now
     
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  3. There's of course the classics with ice water hash and dry sift. Beyond that as long as we aren't getting too far into semantics, I think most people consider "solventless" to be extraction methods that do not use hydrocarbons.

    So doing a simple flower infusion into a carrier oil (coconut, mct, etc) would be solventless as well (even though the carrier oil + heat acts similar to a solvent) and there's no remediation/purging needed.
     
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  4. I was hoping there were more concentrates to discover
    Still new to vaping concentrates and rosin is one of my favorites

    I have a magical butter machine and did my early infusions with it but found extraction so much better for my personal taste
    Being able to mask the cannabis taste is important to me
     
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  5. IMG_20221016_135544.jpg IMG_20221016_140158.jpg IMG_20221016_140203.jpg IMG_20221016_143959.jpg IMG_20221016_144011.jpg IMG_20221018_093144.jpg IMG_20221018_093617.jpg IMG_20221018_094847.jpg

    Newest batch of thunder struck tincture being filtered and scrubbed for medicinal chocolates
    This ratio of thc to cbd seems very effective for sleep
    My wife uses the chocolates in place of Ambien
    She works overnights and does not like the Ambien hangover
     
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  6. Yes, I'd like to give that tincture a try! $200 doesn't sound too bad. Do you know the mg per ml? I see it's meant for sublingual use and is an MCT oil. Interesting.
    I've almost used up my older "mystery" capsules and tinctures. @PsychedelicSam taught me how to calculate potency, and now I usually know the strength of my edibles.
     
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  7. That tincture looks kinda meh. It's just a lot of distillate in MCT oil.

    I'd take a 1,000mg tincture made from rosin with a good variety of terpenes over that any day.
     
  8. Its for use in edibles
    100% sure its from distillate

    I can make a lot of potent edibles for folks in need and not have it bankrupt me
    The folks I cater to cannot use edibles because of the taste
    These products help a lot and when you can get an introductory price like that and eliminate the extraction and infusion process $200 for 5000mg is a very good deal
    May get 2 and store one in the freezer
     
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  9. @SpaceChimp84, It's good to see you. For personal use I'd also like the terpene rich tincture! I get what you're doing, @Tokintb12 and I hope that stuff works like you expect it to. I guess you'll scrub it to remove any taste? How concentrated is it?
     
  10. #52 Tokintb12, Nov 9, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2022
    Since its distillate infused its already scrubbed so no need

    Scrubbing oil is a whole different story
    You would need a real column with several media that are formulated to scrub the oil
    High heat to keep it as fluid as possible and a lot more pull than my counter top vacuum pump can create
    I would have to do it in small multiple runs

    Think they use things like activated alumina, silica, magsil etc. to filter crude
    Not hard, just cumbersome

    Ethanol provides the best product for the DIY

    Edit: 5000mg THC Tincture - Tops Farm - Now Open! | Weedmaps

    $170.00 now
    I'm in
    I don't know how much mct oil but I think it is the large eye dropper size bottle so one drop is probably 25-50mg
    200 gummies or a cosmic apple pie
     
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  11. Great job ya doing Tokintb12,
    all is greatly appreciated :thumbsup:
     
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  12. Are you re-incorporating food grade terpenes into it? Otherwise, just THC on it's own is pretty limited in its therapeutic benefits imo.

    Looking purely at mg to mg when it comes to distillate vs a more comprehensive extract like a rosin (or lower grade bubble hash) is shortsighted. Leaning too heavily on just THC will increase tolerance while lowering efficacy per mg. When you have terpenes in the mix, you don't need nearly as many mgs of THC to get the desired effects (plus you can steer them in way more directions, creating more variety in applications).

    Let's say you're in a place where you can get decent enough flower to get an oz for $300. Generally when you press it into flower rosin you'll get 4-5g per oz of flower (though this can vary depending on strain and quality of grow).

    Each gram of rosin will range in THC between 750mg/g - 850mg/g roughly. Which means in an oz of flower will yield 3,000mg - 4,250mg of THC and if maintained well will have other cannabinoids and terpenes included.

    Of course with mg/$ math this looks like a worse deal, but you'd be getting a much better input to work with vs just distillate in mct oil. Now, this certainly isn't realistic or possible for many people and I do not look down on those doing their best with what is available to them.

    Unless you're rich, or growing your own for this sort of thing, we need to factor in the resources/time we have.

    With that said, I think edibles made from a better concentrate will yield better results in those using them.

    However, if you only have the budget/time to work with distillate PLEASE buy some food grade terpenes and incorporate them into your infusions, so that those you are making them for can benefit from the ensemble effect.

    This will not only greatly increase the therapeutic benefits, but it will also help to minimize the increase in their tolerance (which will maintain the efficacy of your creations over longer periods of time). It will also allow you to also play with different formulations aimed at different ailments/desired experiences.
     
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  13. Folks do not like terpenes in their oil or syrup
    This is for pain management so thc is what we are looking for therapeutic value wise (stoned so I'm really butchering the language)
    This is pain blocking that lasts for 20-30 minutes and settles into a dull ache for me and others
    It lasts about 5 hours and requires little to no maintainence depending on your workload
    So I take a morning vape bag if needed but usually not
    Ingest my edible at 11am
    Assess pain at 2pm and take a concentrate hit to boost the edible if needed
    Vape as needed through the evening

    I agree with all your post in theory but the practical application is what matters
    You can manage tolerance and not go bankrupt at the same time
    For myself and the folks I help thc has proven the best pain reliever
    The terpenes have a minimal noticeable effect for this level of pain but you are right about the role they play in boosting the pain relief
    The trade off in taste for the effect was not worth it for many, actually all
    It needs a lot of experimenting to flavor correctly, $$$$$$
    It does however piss people off because it changes flavor profiles so much that it makes edibles a chore to ingest
    A lot of happy people who enjoy infused cream soda with no cannabis taste yet all the pain relief don't want limonene

    I understand what you are saying but what I have found out after 3 years of this is that what I read and what actually happens is two different things
    The entourage effect or whatever you call it is real but not an option for some folks, actually a lot
    There is a video a few posts back about thc levels and terpenes
    My crowd cannot tolerate the "plant" taste in edibles so it is really tricky putting terpenes back into a solution without changing the flavor profile and having a mutiny

    I think your post is great and insightful
    This conversation should happen
    Tolerances, entourage effects are very important for therapeutic maintainance
    Thc/cbd in conjunction with all their relative terpenes are REAL medicine
    Once folks learned to scrub their tinctures they were a bit reluctant to flavor the syrup with terpenes
    Most liked the clean slate to flavor themselves and the crisp high the fully scrubbed tincture provides

    Folks should read your post several times
    Terpenes are very important and I'm preaching to my crowd but...
    IMG_20220728_145908.jpg IMG_20220812_203324.jpg

    Its just tastes sooooooo good
     
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  14. #56 SpaceChimp84, Nov 16, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2022
    Hopefully in the future there's more access and lower cost for BDT and CDT to use in formulations, as I think a lot of the issue with most terpenes is that they tend to come with less desirable flavors (due to their extraction methods), though it would be interesting to see what even a small amount would do to boost effects.

    Have you tried making them infused oil capsules rather than something they taste directly? It's the reason I only do capsules for our CBD oils, since I am not willing to lose the benefits that the terpenes have added, but it's also really tough to get people to take something that tastes bad (and I'd rather not overload it with sugar/flavorings etc).

    While terpenes don't taste great, I think the biggest issue with the flavor tends to come from the distillate itself. Using CBD Isolate with terpene isolates has been the sweet spot for us, since it allows us to up the mg of CBD and terpenes, without the bitterness that tends to come with distillate/crude oils. The only thing is with the terpenes people get "terp burps", but once they get used to that being a thing they actually seem to like it (since it reminds them that they took their capsule!).

    Sort of like how some people actually enjoy the "weed" flavor in edibles, I think it tends to be the fact that in the past they equated that to the experience that would follow so it connects positively. I've found that if you make something that doesn't come with a terrible taste, but still has the desired effects you can convert the old heads over and not lose the newbies.

    Anyway, you may want to try using terpene isolates and making your own blends to try in capsules (just make sure you use some lecithin for absorption) to see if you notice a difference in the pain relief aspects. It's always nice to have more tools/options at your disposal.

    Edit: OH! Also, the "plant taste" of weed, or what most think of when they smell/taste weed is not actually terpenes, it's Thiols and esters. The "skunk" smell of cannabis is not a terpene (it's thiols), so if you are able to get isolates of terpenes, you can avoid the turnoff of "weed taste" while still getting the boosted effects.
     
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  15. Hazards of posting stoned
    I forget to make a point

    The reason I started filtering was to get the "plant" taste out for personal consumption
    There were arguments about what needed to be filtered and whether chlorophyll had taste
    Several months spent researching all that before settling on CarbonX and celite545 for filtering
    I understood the terpenes were not going to be there but the end product was worth the process and loss
    After some use and adjustment a great final product was made
    This was always intended to be a sugar carrier

    I make oil all the time
    IMG_20221116_165522.jpg

    Not sure if it is noticeable but on the left is single stage green oil
    On the right is 2 stage filtering and more of an amber color

    The reason folks opt for sugar is it is less tiring and shorter in duration making it better for morning/daytime consumption
    Folks request the syrup more than the oil despite the oil having better pain relief
    I do not understand why other than the lethargy the oil can create
     
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  16. Makes sense, if you are doing a whole plant extraction you will get the thiols that make it taste/smell like "weed" (and it takes very little of these to make it an issue, just think of how powerful the smell of a dead skunk is). The sugar probably offsets the sedative effects of THC with a little sugar high. If you buy some terpene isolates, it won't taste like "weed" the way people think of it, but with the right mix of terpenes you can have pain relief without the drowsiness.

    Limonene is probably not a great one to use since it's often pretty strong in flavor since most versions are extracted from citrus peels (after all they use it as a degreaser in cleaners), but if you play around with some linalool, myrcene, and terpinolene terpene isolates you can get some pretty powerful relief without much THC needed (and the terpenes aren't nearly as expensive when using for edibles since a little goes a long way).

    Remember, it's not terpenes that give that weed taste, it's the thiols and esters also present in the whole plant material (in addition to the chlorophyll adding bitterness as well).
     
  17. I was using limonene as an example but I get what you are saying
    Its not the expense of the terpenes but the end result if you use too much
    It requires thinning to mitigate the taste and that requires more material etc.

    We've tried a number of combinations for pain management
    Terpenes can provide some relief but I am in a pain blocking category
    I need the high thc to break the cycle of pain so I can get moving
    A small powerful dose that doesn't send me to sleep
    That's what the syrup does
     
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  18. IMG_20221222_175926.jpg

    Update
    Working on the decarb times and temps for CBD and CBG dominant flower
    Stepping well outside the norm or 240f (115c) for 40 minutes


    https://plantseveryday.com/blog/how-to-decarb-cbg-cannabigerol-with-actual-lab-results

    The CBD flower will be a little more tricky as preservation of compounds is essential

    Lots of problems uploading pics and videos so lots of stuff is not gonna make it into the thread

    IMG_20221222_180949.jpg

    This is the mystery tincture syrup
    Unknown grams in the tincture so I went ahead and processed it
    Less than half a teaspoon for dosage
    Basically 2 speeds, hyper drive and plaid (Spaceballs!)
    Stuff is radioactive

    More fucking gummies and chocolates as I cannot finish this in the 6 week shelf life I give myself
    The soda should be very good!
     
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