Discussion in 'Politics' started by 1bakedpotato, Nov 14, 2011.

  1. As our freedoms and liberties are being slowly stripped away from man kind by the greed of money, we shall put together a movement accesible by anyone in the country. We will fight fire with fire, using one of the greatest technological advancements of our time.

    What is the movement?
    Unrest in America. The common person is becoming more irritated by our governing bodies. We remember, and hereby stand for, the ideology that this democracy placed upon our people was establish by the people, for the people. As we reach the end of 2011, more and more of those people are becoming upset. The voices of the people are not being heard by our own democracy. We have been preached change for years by those very people we elect. It is time for EVERY SINGLE PERSONS VOICE TO BE HEARD. These occupy movements are being demonstrated around the country. This is a way to support your people without giving up on the current situations you are in.

    What do we stand for?

    How do we support?
    Use the internet for love, not hate. Discuss ideas amongst eachother... The internet has been great for laughs and killing time. But all of the energy put into trolling and forum spamming meme pictures could be placed in such a better place. Amongst eachother put together ideas of "spamming" the internet for the power of man kind. "WE ARE THE 99%"

    Someone put it together.

  2. I think a lot of people with the time and skill to make a website for the 99% are in the 1%.

    It's their money you want to steal, after all.
  3. whyioccupy.org
  4. that would be incorrect, nice grasping though
  5. Beautifully said.

    There are some people that have been doing what you are suggesting for a long time. They post information and intelligent observations and ideas in chatrooms and forums, and comment threads bigtime and under many different names. The internet has been an amazing tool for helping us all to understand how things actually work and what things are truly possible.

    If anyone could recommend some sites dedicated to ideas for a brighter future or whatever i will appreciate it. Maybe there's a section here in GC somewheres, or maybe there could be.

  6. First off, almost anybody can make a blog or website nowadays not to mention twatter and facehook. Secondly, our economics are a scam, it is common knowledge that the way things are setup the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

    Income gap will keep growing without changes, CBO director says - - CBS News

    CBO: Top 1% getting exponentially richer - CBS News

    Who are the real thieves?
    {repost}Like the 1% would actually be at the top of some darwinistic food chain outside of their comfortable little rigged system. Many conservatives seem to think the rich are actually entitled to shit just because they can get it. That's like the europeans thinking they were entitled to the north american continent because they had the ability to kill the natives. Just because you have the ability to take people's shit doesn't make you entitled to it.{end repost}

    Simply, when there are citizens and veterans even that have nowhere to go no land to use no means to survive on their own because the 1% outsourced their jobs to asian slave children across the planet, then the top 1% needs to give back some of the land and resources of the earth and of it's people that they are hording. They have much more than they need, which would be fine everybody else had at least enough but they don't. They believe their level of success in economic games makes them more entitled to everything, even to survival. It's a sociopathic thought virus that needs to be worked out in most people's minds, except in the megarich they are generally real deal sociopaths who probably won't ever really give a fuck about others.

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExhzVDwEVZA]"We are the 1%" - YouTube[/ame]

    Health and all wealth ultimately comes from the land. Those who control the land and the natural resources through the economic games also control the health and wealth of the 99.9% and those same point1% also have the most influence over politics and the mainstream media. So while the 99.9% fight over scraps, these rich assholes hook each other up and steer the game in their favor.
  7. Yup, both parties are against Cronyism.

    The government.
    The rich are only entitled to the stuff that people voluntarily give them. Stealing is always wrong, even if it's the majority stealing to pay for their morally-just causes.

    Your understanding of economics is superficial. Outsourcing only happens because of the high taxes and regulations. The rich don't horde, they invest and buy stuff, which puts the money back into the market; they wouldn't be rich if all they did was horde. People give that money back to them, which creates the illusion of hording. They know what people want, so they set it up and people give them money. If you don't like their game, don't pay them.

    So you're mad that government officials work for money? and the government doesn't work in your favor?

    Reduce the size of the government and the corporations would have less incentive to bribe the government officials.
  8. I like this. I feel like the internet is probably the biggest tool in helping us propel ourselves into the future, and it is being severely under-utilized(to at least some degree intentionally, methinks). Anyways, we definitely need to start taking advantage of this incredible technology, and being innovative with it to help along the evolution of the human mind.
  9. this one always gets me :p

    only if they knew...

  10. Yeah, almost anyone can. But not anyone can make a good one that people actually want to go to. That's partly why there are so many barren blogs on the net.

    So I stand by what I said. If you want a website that's going to matter to anybody you're going to require someone who has skill, knowledge and experience. Those people, while maybe not so rare, are in very high demand.

    They can command higher wages because they made good choices. If they aren't in the 1% guess who probably employs them?

    Just so I understand I need to reparse what you said to see if we match up.

    Am I to assume that you are supporting your argument: "our economics are a scam" with "the rich saw their income grow 275% while the rest of us only got 40%"?

    Would you prefer that the rest of us never seen any growth at all? Would it have been better that way?

    You also fail to mention who pays most of the taxes in this country.

    What about this: What if we took whatever % of money from the rich you decided and we gave it to the poor. In exchange, the poor are not allowed to use any government services they haven't paid for. Happy?

    Government, politicians, socialists, fascists, burglars . . . the list goes on

    So I don't know if these are your words or if you just copy/paste from somewhere else. At least where ever you pulled this from acknowledges on some level that the system is rigged. Maybe some day you or they will start pointing your angst at the people who control the system.

    Hint: If you need to pay a lobbyist to get what you want you are not in control of the system.

    Well, this is a blanket statement and I'm tempted to say a red herring. What conservatives? Can you give me a name or a citation that proves this?

    I think if there is a voluntary exchange then you're absolutely entitled to the fruits of that exchange. That's human nature. If you don't like that people are making $$$ in finance, maybe you should have studied finance.

    OK man. You can't just make up a claim like you did in the sentence before AND THEN further try to elicit further guilt by continuing to arbitrarily associate it with more people you dislike or heinous crimes committed by people in a time that have absolutely nothing to do with what you are talking about.

    Being able to keep the money you earn is much different than showing up in a previously undiscovered continent and killing the natives because they don't have a flag. Straw. Man?

    You're absolutely right. And that's why I don't support any government of any kind. When you figure out that wall street didn't take anything from you and that it was actually government who took that money come talk to me.

    This is bullshit.

    I know it feels good to be a moral crusader, Nancy Grace made a career out of it. But this is bullshit.

    It's been shown here before, and if you're too lazy I'll dig it out for you, the people who make up the labor force of the stereotyped 'slave labor' countries have seen the largest and most dramatic increase in their standard of living over the last 30 years.

    Most job outsourcing was made possible by significant innovations in the transportation market. Coupled with a work force who refuses to work below a minimum wage, or without a bunch of expensive standards made the perfect climate to send jobs overseas.

    But you see, I like job outsourcing because I care about the poor. I like knowing that when I buy clothing made overseas some kid gets to eat, grow up and start a family of their own with a better chance in the world than they had growing up.

    Oh so you get to decide how much is enough for everyone? Would you mind detailing that for every job and every person down to the cent? You can't do that. Regardless, you don't have the authority to dictate this and no one should.

    Straw man again, but that's ok. You're still full of shit.

    You need to look up the definition of sociopath.

    Actually, the mega rich are enjoying anarchy very much thank you. You see, in our system if you have money you can just pay the fine, get a good lawyer or have people look the other way. If you want to hurt the rich you make it so the poor can compete. You take away their advantage. That advantage is the state.

    Ultimately, health and wealth come from the minds of people. Without the ideas, imagination and innovation of the human brain all the dirt and resources in the world would be absolutely worthless.

    Oh, and it's government who controls the land and resources of this country. You're so disillusioned, but I suppose that's the result of 12(?) years state run, state own, state controlled education.

    Have fun staying poor your entire life.

  11. Growth in amount of dollars earned does not equal growth in wealth. Wealth is purchasing powers, NOT amount of dollars.
  12. Sounds like you can't answer that question.
  13. Or perhaps you don't have an understanding of what money is?
  14. #14 Mirvs, Nov 15, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 15, 2011
    Alright, I'll meet you in the middle.

    Even though myself and others have detailed what money is, what currency is, the differences between them and how a return to money over our current fiat currency is an excellent idea on this board before I'll give you an answer.

    You say:
    Wealth is no purchasing power. My grandmother worked hard every day of her life, had little purchasing power but was immensely wealthy because she had an abundance of the things she loved.

    So even though you don't know the definition of wealth and still want to argue about money that's OK.

    Because what you're saying is so standard it has been refuted multiple times for many years now. Wages may have rose 40% and inflation may rise 35%. Not a huge increase in purchasing power. The point is, if that 40% wage increase had never happened the 35% inflation still would have.

    So I ask again. Would it had been better if the 40% increase had never happened at all?

    For the sake of this conversation, it doesn't matter either way. We do not operate on money, we operate on fiat currency. There is a huge difference. I am going to assume, and correct me if I'm wrong, that because you thought we're talking about money you also thought the american dollar is money. I'm going to continue to assume that because you didn't understand that the dollar is not money, it is in fact a currency, that you, sir, are the one who has no idea what money, purchasing power or wealth really mean.

  15. Well, you're mischaracterizing what I'm saying...not entirely your fault, you don't really know what I'm saying since I just said one sentence...hell, I don't even know what your position is on things, I was just pointing out that "growth" in income does not necessarily mean that there has been a growth in purchasing power, when compared with the economy at large...

    Aaaanyways, I'm not really trying to debate you...I really don't even know what your position on things is, so it certainly wouldn't make sense to debate...I shouldn't have even said my second comment about you now knowing what money is, it was only in response to "sounds like you can't answer that question," when I just wanted to make that one point. Nonetheless, sorry for dragging it on longer than it had to, continue on :wave: (actually probably don't continue on here, since I'm pretty sure this has nothing to do with the OP)
  16. You're question was answered.
  17. #18 Brudogg, Nov 16, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2011
    Your understanding of economics is programming, which would be okay if everybody had at least what they needed but they don't. Doesn't matter what economic hoops we jump through we are all entitled to a share of the land and natural resources that we need to survive and thrive on our own. The current economic and governmental systems have stripped us of our basic right to survive, this is where entitlements are born.
    I do avoid spending my money with megacorps as much as possible.

    Yes, reduce the size and scope of governments for sure as well as corporations.

    This 'all or nothing' thing that you're trying to do is pointless extremism.
    The minimum wage is not a liveable wage. Try to back away from the tree and see the forest real quick if you would and think about what that really means. A person who works hard all week and earns minimum wage does not earn enough money to live on. Apparently that's how much our society values human life. As the disparity between rich and poor grows, human rights diminish and economic enslavement flourishes.

    As they should since they are the ones who make the rules to enforce on everybody else, rules that they can easily buy their way around if need be.

    Of course not, could give everybody some land though and do away with entitlements.

    I wrote that but i posted it somewhere else a while back. My "angst" is with the systems, my aim is to bring them all down a few notches, governmental and corporate.

    Dude, if you CAN pay a lobbyist to get what you want then yes you are controlling parts of the system.

    Rush Limbaugh all the time, really most any conservative talk radio show anywhere the hosts and callers think the rich are actually entitled to have ten or a hundred times more resources than they need while others who work just as hard if not harder go without.
    Here is Herman Cain to perfectly illustrate what i'm talking about:
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPiSzCDChX4]Herman Cain on Occupy Wall Street - Extended - YouTube[/ame]

    I'm not a hater, i don't mind people making money however they want to make it unless they are harming somebody in the process, like rigging the games so that the few have very much and the many have very little.

    The similarities are glaring. Besides slaughtering the natives, they took control of all the land and natural resources and they saw the natives as "lesser" and herded people like cattle wherever they saw fit. This was due to a superiority complex at the groupthink level, similar to the superiority complexes of today's conservative groupthink.

    Governments and wall street are controlled by bankers and they've all been robbing us of our freedom and our cash for a very long time now. I don't take the extreme "no government" view but much less would be preferable. And corporate "rights" should go out the window.

    Well tell me how ya really feel, ha. I'm not getting paid for this dude, i'm calling it how i see it.

    Oh yeah so now they get 2 bowls of rice every 16 hour shift and gummy bears in the company store but its still a deplorable way for human beings to live and they don't live that way by choice.

    Sad and true.

    Okay, you're messing with me now right? They would have a better chance in the world without all the economic games dictating their lives. When you buy clothes from those places you don't support them you support the systems that keep them enslaved.

    These statements of yours are extreme. I'll try to break this down for you. Common sense can decide how much is too much and how much is not enough, leaving the middle ground as the playing field. When you see a guy holding a sign asking for money, whatever his deal is, he doesn't have enough. When you see a bum sleeping on a park bench, whatever his deal, he doesn't have enough. When you see little scrawny children who need schools to provide them breakfast in the morning and lunches in the summertime because they won't get to eat otherwise, whatever their parents deal, they don't have enough. When you see people who aren't immigrants or drug addicts working at the day labor places for minimum wage, they don't have enough. When you see people riding the city bus, you will find plenty of people who don't have enough. Now when you see a guy in the back of a limo, chances are he has more than enough. When you see anyone who owns a vacation home then they obviously have more than enough but not to an absurd degree like those who have vacation mansions with servants. Bottom line, there really are people who have way more than they need and there really are people who do not have enough.

    No. As i said about the minimum wage.

    A person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience.

    I stand by my statement.

    No it ultimately comes from the ground, ideas innovation all that is great but the necessities of life, food clothing shelter are grown, true wealth is grown.

    It's also corporations and banks that control the land. Tryin to snub your greedy brown sheeple nose at me, don't act like you know me.

    I'm not poor but i know people who are and i have what we human beings call empathy and conscience. Have fun shedding your skin eating live prey and whatever else you cold-blooded reptiles do with your lives.

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfp2O9ADwGk]Johnny Cash - Sixteen Tons - YouTube[/ame]

  18. No, it's not extremism. Notice, no one has bothered to answer the question yet.

    No one answers it because maybe that's just the best we've been able to do over the last 30 years. The minimum wage is a brutal law that says "If you cannot provide this much work per hour you cannot have a job". It discriminates against the handicap and the poor and it artificially inflates the cost of labor and goods - which hurts everyone especially the poor.

    Being against the minimum wage helps the poor.

    This is just stupid. They make the rules so naturally they make themselves pay more taxes? Baloney. If they made the rules they would make it so they paid no taxes.

    Hooray break out the party hats. I'm glad you know what everyone needs and how to do it.

    You're doing it wrong.

    No. If you go to Dunkin Donuts and pay them $1,000,000,000 to bring back glazed maple frosted donuts you are not controlling Dunkin Donuts. If you have to fork out $$ to get what you want from someone or some thing you most definitely do not control it.

    I'm glad you know what everyone needs. Some of us realize we don't have that authority or ability. You can have your society where you get to dictate how much of what everyone gets, but stay the Hell away from me and mine.

    Except it's not rigged just because you lose or don't get what you want. If you don't like the rules don't play. Go somewhere else, do something else, in the grand scheme of things no one will notice or care.

    Ok dude. Listen. You have to be in high school. You want to say that:

    The financial sector is to the us


    The british were to the indians

    So instead of giving us malaria riddled blankets they gave us the Iphone, Ipod and Ipad? I'll take it.

    Like most of your ideas, this is fantasy.



    No, actually their standard of living goes way up because their governments are usually weak and don't have the ability to enforce any kind of trade tariffs so goods are extremely cheap.

    You look at the world through privileged eyes. These are people whose parents relied on the jungle or the forest for food. Their income went up something like 3-4 times. That's a HUGE increase in standard of living. It's absolutely not how you try to paint it and it's your ignorance of how it is just so you can stick to your moral high ground that makes this the last response you'll get from me.

    You would rather people suffer so you could argue your point. If you really gave a damn about the poor you'd do more than just repeat talking points or plainly make things up. You're not interested in doing any good you just have a vendetta. You want to steal and see the fruits of your theft distributed the way you see fit to make yourself feel good. You're no better than the establishment you want to see gone.
  19. this threads intense

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