I am curious, what is the ultimate goal of the occupying mobs? I understand the complaints, frustrations and anger; however, I fail to here any express goals beyond "collapse the system," "shut down banks," "forgive all debt," and basically a cry for free shit. Hell, many of the members of these mob groups are little better than the union members in Washington who used violent action against a company because they "felt they deserved to get the contract" instead of it going to another union. Tough shit. Grow up already. Life isn't fair. So, what happens once this all occurs? Who is going to be in charge? How is there going to be any system in place? What, are we going to go back to the old barter system? Most of the people at the rallies will be far more screwed than they are now because in a barter system you actually have to provide some good or service in exchange for the item/service you desire. Or you could just steal and become a scum of the earth. So, what is the goal? People want their loans forgiven, which they asked for. They want education loans erased, for education they received...and asked for. Man, instead of mobbing companies and threatening businesses, form an actually organized group and fight for rights, not free shit. The more you get for free, the more you are beholden to the hands that gave. In other words, the more free shit you get from someone, the more dependent you are for their protection and more free shit. I.E. Slave. And to qualify my position, I am a student with a loan, I am currently unemployed and just lost my house to foreclosure because I could not pay the mortgage contract I signed and agreed to when I bought my house. Instead, I will pick my boots, clean them off and find work while finishing my degree. It is called self-discipline, non-defeatism and self-reliance.
Good questions man. I agree with the 'idea' of the Occupy Wallstreet peeps, I think this government needs to be changed and the people are how it's done. However, I've heard the majority in NYC do not have a unified thing they are protesting, it is more just a massive movement of people to protest whatever little inconsistency they don't like about the government. What we do need is a organized group with goals they want achieve, and a realistic way of achieving them, not just a bunch of people walking around shouting and yelling 'wallstreet is bad', 'the rich are evil'. We need to do things that will actually make a difference.
The best thing to do to institute change is to use the processes in place that are widely available. While I understand there are portions of the protesters which maintain some very valid arguments, the majority are crying about their debt and lack of a job. I offer these arguments. To debt, loans, mortgages, etc... You borrowed the money and used it. You bought a house, education car, credit card etc... No one held a gun to your head and made you borrow money and then use it. They all come with contracts that must be signed. Therefore, it is your own responsibility to live up to your end of the bargain. If you cannot, then you pay the penalty, bad credit and lack of the ability to borrow more. Plainly stated, if you borrow money from me, is it wrong that I expect to be paid back? If you fail to pay me back, I am not going to lend you money again and rightfully going to let others know you are a high risk. To those without a job, we are all in the same boat. I haven't had a job in over a year and yes, it hurts. But punishing other functioning businesses is not going to solve the problem. Shave, shower and keep applying for a job. For crying out loud, think of how much could be accomplished if all this energy was put in a more positive direction. And yelling for the government to help get a job is futile. How much money has ALREADY been wasted in different job bills and programs with absolutely no benefit to the unemployed? If every dollar the government spends to create jobs programs costs over $2, how is that going to work out? I argue that by taking money from the private business and "spending it wisely" on new programs is not the answer. That is insanity. Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. If the government keeps doing a poor job of making jobs, why would you keep going back to the government and asking for more help? That makes no sense. And with regard to branding the rich as evil, who do you think are the ones who create jobs in the first place? The people who have the money to start a business or invest in the expansion of another business. So screwing them over is a good idea how? I would argue that the government these people are running to for help are the very ones screwing them in the first place. By adding regulation after regulation and creating new jobs programs that have to have some source of income, the government is going to look to the very job creators to pay for these new government programs that are not going to work. And then we have people like Nancy Pelosi (who is one of the very rich people that these groups are crying at) talking about how these people are doing a great thing by rising up...be very careful when a politician has got your back. Especially when it directly serves their own political benefit. And dewd, take another look at the Ron Paul statement in your signature. He isn't saying the government should coddle our people either. Looking back through history, EVERY TIME the government gets involved with anything in the private sector, bad things have happened. Unless there are any examples that can be given to me, I do not believe the government has been able to create a truly fair business regulation in 100 years. Everything the politicians do always hurts someone. If they try to help one side, the other side gets screwed. This is the very point Ron Paul makes in many speeches. The less the government meddles, the better we are. Every time the government meddles, we lose a small slice of freedom. Remember that. Considering that a majority of politicians are extremely wealthy should be the first clue. Bill Clinton gets paid over $300,000 for giving a 5 minute speech and these people are protesting the rich? Ummm...I think much of this angst is in the wrong direction. Hell, Obama has been in office and Democrats had a supermajority in the Senate, House and Congress as a whole for the first two years of his presidency, they still have the Senate and they still blame everyone and everything else for all the problems? Really? And people still buy this? How about an ounce of common sense here. I am no fan of either party. But when you hold the keys to the mansion and the money box and the mansion burns down while the money box gets raided, I think you hold responsibility for that. They hate the government, hate republicans, hate the tea party, still hate Bush but Obama is the master...ummm...again, how about some common sense here. How about all those people start obtaining signatures to write petitions and get change done. What is going on does absolutely nothing accept get crowds on tv. Other than that, what is expected to be accomplished? How does instigating the police, preventing businesses from functioning make anything better? It just makes no sense to me...unless I am missing something. Lack of emotional control never accomplished anything accept starting war. It never changes government accept through violent means. And I think the outcomes in Egypt and Lybia have served a pretty good example of the "benefits" of that action. Both have terrorist groups in charge instead of an oppressive government. Better off now? Hmmm... No, file petitions and obtain majority required to institute legal change. Do you really think Obama is going to let any of this threaten him and his team? Hell no. He will allow it to get to the point where martial law is required to quell the uprising and then use that to his advantage since he was the shining knight who saved the day and made the people happy...at least that is my prediction should this get out of control. Should martial powers be within his grasp, look out because every right these people are complaining about go right out the window. And that would be a concern regardless of who is in power. So, again, what is the intended goal and, most importantly, what is the change that is being expected that will IMPROVE the situation? Finally, I submit, you cannot get order from chaos but one way...total annihilation of your opposition. A majority of these groups cannot be reasoned with and I back that up through common sense analysis that they don't even know what it is they want. This means, should this chaos ensue, either the people will revolt against the government in which anarchy will ensue and we are all screwed. Or, the government will instill martial law and we are all screwed. Anyone see any other possible outcome? Sorry for such a long response. I couldn't seem to say what I was thinking in a shorter version. lol!
I love how much momentum these movements are picking up. I think it was like a month or two ago that Garrison or what ever the fuck his name is said no one is going to go to the occupy wallstreet. I am sure glad he was wrong.
O is this directed at me? if so, ur preaching to the choir man, haha, i was agree with your questions.
LOL! naw man, was rambling on with my thoughts. What can I say, it happens to the best of us. I have a family that shares most of my views but anytime we talk about anything and I bring up a point (for or against doesn't matter) they argue their point harder. So, over the years I have lost interest is talking with them and keep pretty much to myself. Since joining here I have read many posts that I agree and disagree with. But the important factor is that the majority here seem mature enough to have a decent conversation. So, no, it wasn't directed at you. I was mainly expounding on both our posts a bit.
i still dont understand how some people can not agree with these demonstrations. first they ridiculed occupy wall street saying things such as their not organized, and their in the wrong location which is completely wrong. 1. they have been organized throughout this out protest, they just never got the media coverage and support! 2. wall street is a perfect location because its WALL STREET lol. and no there is no "one" location with demonstrations coming up all over America
eh? Last time I checked the men/women that work on Wall Street won't lose their jobs if a couple thousands people camp outside of their office buildings for weeks at a time. However, a politician gets votes from people like that, so a massive demonstration, with thousands camping around Capital Hill and the White House, that'll raise eyebrows. Especially when Big Brother comes by and tries to use force to remove the peaceful protesters. Granted there are demonstrations all over the country but i guarantee that if you were to walk around those demonstrations and ask why they were there you'd get a jubilee of different answers. There needs to be united, agreed upon changes that this group stands behind, otherwise is just a bunch of pissed off people, wasting their time in a camp out in the middle of a city.
1. Wait a minute, so the videos that show up on the news everyday is the definition NOT getting media attention? I am sorry, but I call bullshit there. 2. I refer to the post after yours, by dewdropshakur. Showing up and shitting on cops cars, preventing the average person from using a public roadway after being told NOT to do that, then get arrested and scream police brutality, having sex in streets, leaving used rubbers on the sidewalks...hmmm..somehow I just don't see that as organized. And yes, this is in reference to your "perfect location" concept. At this point they look like a bunch of bums wandering the streets menacing the average non-protestor. Whether that is the case or not, public perception for these people is not at an all time high (no pun intended). And if you want to get support for your movement, you might want to EMBRACE the average non-protestor, not piss them off. Finally, no, they don't have a unified message. They have hired a fuckin PR firm to generate a message for them. Obama and Pelosi are just supporting them in hopes the movement generates steam for their next election. Again, useful idiots.
By not doing what is in bold. The idea of a protest is to gain attention to whatever/whichever movement you are protesting. You are trying to inform others about your cause and hopefully gain their support. Acting like you're on Bourbon St. during Marti-Gras is not how you get people to join your movement. How should you embrace them? With a smile and a handshake. Then start talking about the movement and why you are protesting. This is why there needs to be an agenda or, at the least, a list of what needs to be changed. This way when uninformed people come up to protesters to ask about what they are protesting you have a professional response. Not just 'cause rich people suck and the government is bad'
I was trying to find a word to use about those not involved with the protest. My bad. I am not trying to create a "if not for then you are against" perspective.