Obamacare will cut the equivalent of 2 million jobs.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Sennalover, Feb 5, 2014.

  1. The problem isn't that it's made in foreign countries. The problem is that through regulations, laws and fees its to expensive to produce in America. As a society becomes more productive more leisure time is also produced for people to further their skills their output their production. As a result of better knowledge better production, advanced skills and knowledge is needed for the workforce. Older items like televisions which are put together by mostly unskilled worker's should be done by unskilled people usually in poorer areas, like other countries. Outsourcing if done through free market principles should be looked at as a great thing. It brings unskilled job's to poor areas of the world raising their life standards all while providing us with a cheaper products. Everyone wins. But when those job's are fleeing a unfriendly business environment to those countries and skilled worker's are not able to compete with foreign labor we get no job's. Couple this with a constantly depreciating currency and what do you get? People crying for walls to keep people out and business in. Minimum wage laws, embargoes , and ultimately war's.

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  2. #102 forty winks, Feb 8, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 8, 2014
    Sometimes capital needs wars to get thing out of a country, like some mined products from Africa, and to get things into a country, like fast food joints in Vietnam.  For example.
     
    Also, much of the jobs outsourcing endsup in repressive countries, which capital ultimately loves and effectively props up, for obvious economic reasons.
     
  3.  
     
    need...na...resulted from yes....nobody needs a war, war is just easier and cheaper for the people that are in charge, usually the wealthy or royal family hierarchy..people that would not risk or lose LIFE or loved ones, just the fodder goes to war.
     
  4. #104 MrRaider, Feb 8, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 8, 2014
    I see it the opposite actually. It's war or force that is needed to keep resources in or out. Trade and peace is a natural occurrence

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  5. #105 RippedMonk, Feb 8, 2014
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    The problem is that life in America is much easier with a higher standard of living, even among the poor, and that American's live under a system that touts rights for workers.  Therefore, the cost of producing is higher here because workers don't allow the company to exploit them as much.  Over seas they can pay the worker shit, give them no healthcare, and shit on them in anyway.  Outsourcing jobs is nearly equivalent to slave labor.  If corporations could get away with that here in the US jobs would still be here.  The bulk of the regulations you are talking about here in the US are regulations that protect human beings.
     
    Sorry MrRaider, but in my opinion if you support outsourcing you might as well be paying the elite to get permission to suck their dick and swing from their nutsack, all the while supporting the exploitation of other human beings all in the name of capitalism.
     
  6. #106 MrRaider, Feb 9, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2014
    Even if it means a higher standard of living for the country you say is being exploited? Btw give me a example where free markets are exploiting someone? Look the reason the middle class struggles is mostly because of the constant devaluation of the dollar. The 1.00 minimum wage of pre 1964 dollars is over 20 now. Over 20.00 2014 dollars can't deny or get around that. If your purchasing power is constantly going down then you will forever be chasing more money for less products. Imo you are mixing up out sourcing with purchasing power. As far as human protection in the work place nothing compares to free market principles. Look at Google or Facebook or most of the new companies and how they treat their employees. That's fuelled by free market principles. Every country in the world had child labor when they were poor. It was free markets and better production that led to children going to school not work. The 40 hrs work week. Air conditioning, provided for in a office or most people will laugh at you. Paid vacation, fraternity leave , sick days, all from being more productive in a society. Not laws in acted by politicians.

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  7.  
    WTF are you talking about buddy.  This has nothing to do with free market economies, which like everything else can be exploited and corrupted.  I'm talking outsourcing here.  Paying people in other countries shitty wages with no insurance, working 16 hours per day minimum.   So nets on the outside of buildings to keep people from jumping to their deaths is a higher standard of living?  Come on Raider, time to stop swinging on the nutsack of corporate CEO's man.  And all those positives you talked about...40 hour work weeks, no child labor etc.. are a result of unions, not the free market.  Seriously bro, what agenda are you pushing you here?
     
  8. You're avoiding logic here. The nets catching the workers jumping to their deaths is because of communism. Forced labor china. Comparing your living standards to someone living in a poor country who lives on a dollar a day is ludicrous! People are literally begging for anything and are offered a job at 3.00 a day 3x the average amount and you say give them health care or nothing. They are just being exploited! If a bunch of Mexicans were paid 3.00 a hr to pick strawberries and now strawberries were 2.00 less a basket would you be happy because you had cheaper strawberries? Or would you say stupid Mexicans are taking jobs, pay workers 15.00 a hr and medical at probably another couple thousand a year and oh by the way why are strawberries so expensive? The rich are exploiting the middle class! Why are you against poor people?

    bat mobile
     
  9. Productivity provides the ceiling on how quickly living standards can rise. To say its because of unions, is false.
     
    Also the majority of outsourced jobs is in manufacturing, not slave-labor exploitation.
     
  10. The United States is becoming more of a service economy. And its not like people in a lot of service jobs are being paid on par with those in the manufacturing sector. It doesnt even out. Outsourcing is great when only some companies are doing it but when everybody is doing it we have a problem.
     
  11.  
    Lol ok, and? So that auto-maker should make the same as that person waiting your table?
     
  12. I gotta say, I don't get the 'obama is fundamentally changing america' thought...seems to me he's just the next link on a chain which has a pre-determined direction, just accelerating the motion a bit each time. Have 'opposing rhetoric,' so people don't notice the LACK of fundamental change, ever.
     
  13. The fact of the matter is we don't know exactly how this all will pan out, although certain theories seem clearer to me.
     
    My predictions:
     
    Several additional changes will occur to the bill.
     
    The government will incur massive debt to support the costs (because I don't believe it will support itself).
     
    We may see a bubble of some sort in the industry.
     
    We will continue to see very much part time work and a worse labor force participation rate.
     
     
    By the way, I think the idea that people will voluntarily work less and still have the same or greater standard of living is a loony paradox. We will see.
     
  14. If people arnt being paid as much they cant buy the products that increase the standard of living and quality of life.
     
    Not to mention how that will lower GDP and the worth of our dollar
     
  15. #116 goober0331, Feb 10, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 10, 2014
     
    The standard of living is basically tied in with increased productivity. Giving people more money doesnt necessarily make them more productive, nor add increased value to what they are producing.
     
  16. There's no such thing as menial labor and all labor is important for a society to function.
     
  17.  
    Theres quite the difference between flipping burgers, and designing the oven that cooks those burgers.
     
  18. But we arnt producing. Other countries are doing our producing. 

    We are productive as far the services we provide but we are becoming a nation where goods arnt being made. They are made elsewhere brought here to be sold by service professionals.
     
  19.  
    I know America isnt producing, manufacturing has been on the decline since the 70's.
     
    The service industry isnt nearly as productive as manufacturing, and things like engineering, which lead to technological advancements.
     

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