Nutrients designed to be used during the 2 week flush?

Discussion in 'Hydroponic Growing' started by Tommatt, Oct 8, 2010.

  1. From my reading about dong hydro, everybody flushes the last 2 weeks with just water. I was at the hydro store today, and was recomended "Sugar Peak Grand Finale 0-6-4) Which says its to be used in the last 14 days up until harvest. I also got KoolBloom Ripening forumula which says to discontinue 3-5 days before harvest.

    Do any of you guys use this stuff during the flush stage? Or should I stick to straight water? I saw a lot of products that were designed to help ripen during the flush stage.
  2. i would say the 0-6-4 wouldnt be that bad for using 14 days piror to harvest. if its organic i would probley use it. have heard alot about sweeteners that some people add during a flush to bring out flavor. should look into it:smoke:
    always highh

  3. You must be reading only posts from those who flush.

    IMO, after 25 years of hydroponic weed growing, flushing is nonsense when done in hydro.

    I've done my own tests of flushed and non-flushed weed and no one has ever "guessed" which is which when smoking or eating my weed. It burns the same, tastes the same and gets the same high if you flush or not.

    I've even gone as far as using double blind testing and gotten the same results.

    Flushing hydro or soil plants for ANY OTHER REASON but over fertilizing is pure unadulterated bullshit.

    It's the old story of "If enough people say something and repeat it often enough and loud enough, many will believe it to be fact when in truth, it's not."

    Flushing for taste or "burnability" has never been done in a real testing environment using "Scientific Method". Had it been, I would have found it.

    Every person, and I do mean EVERY SINGLE PERSON who claims that it helps is doing so with testing practices that are inaccurate. I've yet to find a single person who has used blind or double blind testing to prove it other than myself.

    If you already know that you're smoking flushed or non-flushed weed and have been told it helps, then smoking it to test it is pointless.

    The stories of "Black Ash" that won't burn, harsh smoke, bad taste and all the other bullshit are just that; BULLSHIT.

    Save yourself some time and money. Don't flush in soil unless the soil has built up unused fertilizers. There is no other real reason to flush.

    You flushers out there...

    Don't bother to flame or respond unless you've done some real testing to back up your claims. "Me and Bubba did it and it tasted way better" is not real testing.

    Damn am I tired of hearing this flushing nonsense. Stop wasting your time.
  4. +repped Very good info and very informative post. The flush process has always made sense to me. Give the plant time to take built up nutrients from the roots to the flowers, and to get rid of any chemicals that effect flavor/smell.

    From your write up you give full nutes up untill/very close untill harvest? That would mean something designed to feed during the flush cycle, which so many swear by, would be ok?

    I hear you though about bad information. Reminds me of people talking about cone of a clone of a clone losing potency. One person said it did. so its godspell. Much like a sea;awyer/ Doing my research, and the experienced growers (10-20 years) call BS. Its about the human element.
  5. Thanks for the rep, man.

    First, there are no "built up nutes" in a plant. Plants don't work that way. They take up what they can or need for their nutrition. That's all. Plants don't "store" nutrients to use later. They use as much as they can to maximize their health and vitality, and if starved, will used the nutrients that are present within it's own system to feed those parts of the plant that need them most for survival, but it's really not a storage thing. Animals store fat, plants don't.

    Secondly, there are no "chemicals". Fertilizers are nothing more and nothing less than minerals that have been mined and combined into a package. Sure, everything on the planet is a chemical if you look at it from a chemists outlook.

    Marijuana is a vascular plant. It acts just like every other vascular plant. It doesn't do anything unique. So many people try to make MJ sound like it's a "one-of-a-kind" type plant in regards to how it grows. It's not. There are hundreds of other plants that grow just like marijuana. How it grows and what it does on the molecular level within it's own plant processes is well known.

    If you starve a vascular plant at the end of it's life, you slow all of it's processes down. One of those processes is that of creating THC and it's carrier, resin.

    If you slow or stop the production of THC, isn't that just a little counter-productive in terms of growing it for the high?

    Frankly, I don't grow weed for taste. If I want taste, I'll grow oranges.

    When I grow weed, it's to get an end product that is as strong as I can make it get.

    That means feeding it right up to it's maximum production of THC and resin and that means to feed it right up to the moment I chop that puppy down.

    I use General Hydroponics 3-Part Flora Series in a 5-10-15ml per/gallon rate with the "5" and the "15" switching places for vegging and flowering.

    Full strength flowering mix right up to chop. Full lights 12/12.

    I did read a study that said leaving the lights off for 20 hours before harvest would increase the amount of resin/THC. The study said that their was no difference after 20 hours. I may try that this time to see if I notice any increase in harvest weight or strength of high.
  6. I've heard that 72 hours of complete darkness is the trigger point :) Besides that, my book on MJ says early on in the daylight cycle to harvest.

    Glad to hear GH is working for you you, just spent $280 on what should be a lifetimes supply after looking at feed charts lol! (2.5G of Micro/grow/bloom) Thought I'd need more, then looked at their feed chart. 30ML per change? I bought the comercial bottle!

    I listen/take every bodies advice, but I do know theres a lot of bad info out there. Just like a sea lawyer, something iw heard once and spread like the gospel.
  7. I wish I could remember what study it was I read. It was on one of the botanical sites I frequent. I made a note that it said the THC level increased up to 20 hours of darkness, but not after that point. Oh well.

    Yeah, GH nutes are working very, very well for me. I buy the one-gallon jugs of it. It's about $100 each time for all three.

    I hear you about the "Sea-Lawyers". You wouldn't believe some of the stories I've heard. People peeing in the reservoir, putting table sugar in it, using fruit juices in it, OMG, you should hear some of them!

    I'm maintaining about 0.7 grams per/watt of the strongest weed I've ever smoked in my life, so I'm happy with what I'm doing.
  8. i been wondering about flushing my self, LedFun did you notice any significant gain in bud mass after you stopped flushing? now it has me wondering cuz i can't understand how starving the plant and having it look so pale improves anything.

    i'm gonna try this on one of my plants
    and see whats up for my self.

  9. I try to do at least one type of improvement to my crop with each grow. The one and only time I flushed my grow chambers and used nothing but water in the reservoir for two weeks prior to harvest, the plants suffered greatly in comparison to any other grow where I did not do this. In what was normally a 20 ounce crop, the flushed one was 18 ounces. There were "airy" buds also. I never get "airy" buds. The plants looked almost dead after only one week of the no-nutes (lack of) growing.

    To say that I'm against this fad of flushing that has overcome many, many growers through nothing more than what narrows down to propaganda, would be an understatement.

    In my experience and from what I've learned about plant biology, flushing for any reason other than over-fertilizing is crazy and detrimental to a crop.

    I would challenge anyone who favors flushing for any reason other than over-fertilization to do their flush, do a double blind test. I did this with the one crop I flushed. The most common comment was that the weed looked pretty bad and had NO flavor.

    The usual comments about my weed are that it's fantastic, awesome and has a flavor and taste that is like candy to a smoker. The flushed weed comments were laced with disappointment and an obvious attempts to not insult me...

    I've read thousands of comments made about flushing. With hardly any exception, the comments are made by people who knew the weed was flushed or not and mostly it was thier own grow that they were commenting on. Double blind testing prevents any of that and is the most accepted method of testing on the planet.

    Jeeeeez, I hate to sound like some kind of a fanatic about it, but it does make me cringe when I read a post that says "I tested my own weed that I flushed and it was better than anything I've ever grown before"...or some such thing.
  10. I agree.... i do not flush.... i have also tested this theory and found it to be wrong...
    The drying and cure mean allot more then the flush... IMo...:D

    i get flamed all the time because my plants are nice and green at harvest, but the end product tastes great and has a great buzz so I dont pay any attention to the flaming..;)
  11. If you trust it, don't see any reason to flush then! Think I'll add the flush stuff 3 days before I go to 72 hours of darkness. Says it helps with taste and shit. I dunno. Next go around I'll have bubble buckets and will do a couple differently see how it all goes.
  12. Ledfun, I just finished a grow where my plant just stopped eating after the stretch. It went from eating 300 ppm , .05 conversion , a day to nothing for about a week, then slowly up to about 50 ppm for the rest of flowering. I am 100% positive that plants selectively uptake nutrients on the basis of need. It's also a fact that plants store nutrients in their leaves. Given those two facts, what is the most logical conclusion of why my plant stopped eating? I was using the lucas formula. The ph was fine. Like I said it was eating like a pig during veg and 3 weeks of flowering until the stretch stopped.
  13. Also I never trimmed the bottom of the plant, so it had plenty of leaves to feed off of if that is in fact what plants can do. When I say store nutrients in leaves I, don't mean build-up, I mean use the the nutrients that are in the leaves.
  14. Marijuana is a vascular plant. The main stem and all of the other stems on the plant are like super-highways for minerals and water.

    I think you have confused the method a plant like this grows. It draws minerals and water from it's roots, into the vascular system to feed the leaves. It doesn't feed itself from it's own leaves unless put into severe stress and dehydration.

    All plant matter is made up of chemical elements. Talk to a Botanist who is also a chemist, as I have, and you'll get an ear full.

    When you dry a plant, you get the plant oils and solids that are made up of what minerals it's taken up *and* those that are a conversion into other substances like the various enzymes that make the plant function as it does while alive.

    These parts are all distributed throughout the plant in it's most natural balance. It has to be for the plant to thrive.

    The part of marijuana that we all grow it for is the THC and resins which carry the THC.

    Those resins and the THC are produced by the plant at different levels of production, throughout it's maturity and right up to the moment it finally dies either naturally or by being chopped down.

    If you deprive the plant of those minerals or water that are needed to produce the THC and resins, you're short-changing yourself. If it indeed does cause a flavor enhancement, then it's at the cost of less THC and resins.

    When you starve a plant, the slight amount of nutrients and water it can pull from the leaves if so minimal that it really doesn't count at all. Basically, the leaf is dying and drying up. It's moisture is evaporating into the atmosphere, not being used by the plant. It's minerals are 99.99% still in the dead plant matter after dying.

    Flushing is a well-worn myth made up by those who don't really understand plant biology and followed by those who make a profit from them by selling the idea in a bottle, (sorry GC shop, no slight intended).
  15. You didn't answer my question? My plant was eating like a pig until the stretch stopped. Then stopped eating. I never flushed the plant. There was no reason. It did'nt eat for a week , then the remainder of flowering it only ate about 50 ppms a day. How at that point would it not need anymore nutrients? It was a Nirvana white Widow strain. This plant turned out to be a really frosty plant also. it was in dwc in a bubble bucket under a 600 watt aircooled hood, with no co2. the ph was fine and the plant ate like a pig in veg and in flowering until the stretch stopped. Why at that point is a marijuana plant going to stopped eating? The reservoir was changed frequently with fresh nutes. the plant just did,t want any nutes the first week after stretch, and only very little after that. A clue for me was the plant ate a lttle towards the end of flowering when I was pulling off brown leaves from the bottom of the plant.
  16. #16 LedFun, Oct 18, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2010

    During the vegetative period, while creating an awesome amount of new growth, a plant in hydro will use a massive amount of nutrients. That's pretty logical, right?

    While in vegetative growth, there are a number of enzymes and hormones that the plant creates for the various types of growth it's performing.

    When the plant is put into a sudden, unnatural flowering phase, it follows by doing what it won't do in nature; it first tries to eliminate all the growth hormones and enzymes that it's filled with, (this is what causes the "stretch" that is evident), and then it completely alters the types of hormones and enzymes that it's producing and alters the destination of those hormones and enzymes as well. This isn't something that happens overnight.

    During this "switch" of goals, the plant needs very little nutrients. There is almost no growth within the plant that appears as a size difference or in new plant matter. All of it's energies are being used in it's conversion from vegetative growth into flowering growth.

    Some strains of MJ go though several "stretching" periods. As many as 3 are common. This can be a result of several factors. If the plant is manipulated into a different type of growth through LST or a final topping, this can cause another shift of hormones and enzyme growth and direction. This again can slow the plants growth.

    As to why your specific plants did this, it's because the strain you're growing, specifically the phenotypes characteristics and the environmental alterations you created with light changes and nutrient changes caused it to do what it did. It's what MJ does when switched from vegging to flowering.

    Unless someone was literally watching everything you did while you were growing, it's impossible to nail down the precise timing of each function the plant performs and why it does so at that specific time.

    Relax. It's doing what it does best. It's doing what is perfectly natural for it to do.

    Also, WW has a history of being a more difficult strain to grow. It's got about a thousand phenotypes and crosses and each of them has it's own peculiar traits. Most of the White strains do.

    If the plant is healthy and producing trichomes normally for it's strain, then you have no problem. Like I said, relax and enjoy the ride.

    Did that answer your question?
  17. Absolutely answered my question. Thank you very much. I also agree with your comment on not flushing. There seems like a plethora of misinformation on the internet about growing. Additives and expensive nutrients are other ones.
  18. Really? Great, I'm going from AUH#1, hard plant to deal with typically (first grow) to WW while I get some good clones/mother going. So I switched from one high class bitch to another?
  19. Ha! I guess you could say that!

    The most obvious problem I encountered with WW is it's lack of tolerance for nutrients. Jeeeez, even at half strength of what I use on other strains with no problem, WW *still* burns a bit!

    The same with heat tolerance from your lights. You'll have to back off some for WW.

    Other strains will allow me to get my 430 watt HPS within 8 inches of the canopy. WW made me keep them at 12 to 14 or it reacted badly.

    WW also reacts to stress harder than most other strains.

    It's a wonderful high, but basically a bitch to grow. Newbies should get their experience with easier strains before growing WW or any of the White strains.
  20. ^haha funny shit man :p

    But yeah I completely agree with you on your outlook on flushing. I believe that flushing is like walking through the finish line of a race, you're only robbing yourself of potential growth. The only different taste i've had from unflushed weed is from some bad shit a grower tried to use to kill bugs.

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