No-Till Gardening

Discussion in 'Growing Organic Marijuana' started by Under Hill, Apr 28, 2014.

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  1. Heya LLB and our fellow GCO brethren,


    I've had this link in my bookmark library for a couple of years and find it useful for identifying the ingredients in our organic soil inputs. Not only does it cover macro nutrients, it also covers amino acids, vitamins and minerals. Hope y'all find it useful!


    Ingredient Analysis Table

     
  2. Well i'm glad you asked because i'm reading about the importance of the compost and castings we use and how it helps our plants fight molds and bugs. i've brought home clones with PM on them, put them in a good soil, added a compost tea and a spray of potassium bicarbonate like your greencure and that was that. i used to have mold in my garden within a week or two of starting a round. all i did was switch to organic soil. i've had a fan break and wasn't able to replace it for two weeks and so my plants sat in a room with no ventilation and i got no mold. so its hard for me to understand how one gets it. i think mold spores are everywhere in the air and so our plants get exposed to them but what makes them resistant? a diverse microbiology.


    bacteria, protozoa, fungi, nematodes, all in order of bottom folks to top of the food chain. each one builds off of the other by eating them which causes them to release the nutrients in their bodies that they consumed and also sequester it for later! as the biology builds, your plants become healthier and build that shiny lipid layer that looks like you just sprayed neem oil. i think i'm more excited about the soil food web and it's importance in plant health than i ever was about EM1.
     
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  3. #10863 Redskys, Oct 3, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 3, 2015
    I just started a new run a couple weeks ago. I have for going right now three of them are growing just fine , but the one in this picture since day one every new set of leaves that came out have been deformed. Are they deformed because of bad genetics. Is it worth it to let it keep growing. It seems to be growing OK ImageUploadedByGrasscity Forum1443908063.464036.jpg ImageUploadedByGrasscity Forum1443908097.763012.jpg ImageUploadedByGrasscity Forum1443908133.632331.jpg
     
  4. Weak genetics
     
  5. No but really it looks like variegation ?
     
  6. Well that makes me feel a little bit better but just the thought and sight of PM seems not fun. I sprayed with green cure and can still see the slight whiteness on some leaves, it's so mild but that means there's spores. Should i just keep spraying once a week and see how that works? Could maybe topdressing with ewc and MBG powder help the whole plants overall health which would result in the plant fighting the mold itself? It seems like they are stunted almost, except the mother? I feel like i can actually almost see a little mildew on the mulched cover crops that i trimmed back. Almost like it started from this?? I hate PM lol

    ImageUploadedByGrasscity Forum1443927297.152649.jpg

    ImageUploadedByGrasscity Forum1443927313.040612.jpg

    ImageUploadedByGrasscity Forum1443927342.470312.jpg
     
  7. what did you spray on your plants? that epsom salt? that is just residue you worry wort. :p


    Should i just keep spraying once a week and see how that works?


    no but if you did have PM, yes.


    Could maybe topdressing with ewc and MBG powder help the whole plants overall health which would result in the plant fighting the mold itself? It seems like they are stunted almost, except the mother?


    yes! ewc would be great and there are a few studies showing it helps with pests and molds. i think its in gimiks library.


    I feel like i can actually almost see a little mildew on the mulched cover crops that i trimmed back. Almost like it started from this??


    that is the good stuff. it could be a neem dredge or it could be fungi. that si good and no it didn't start PM
     
  8. Could it be barley tea residue?
     
  9. #10869 MichiganOasis, Oct 4, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 4, 2015

    Nooo way.. Wow. I would've never thought the epsom salt residue looked like that! Just looked really similar, i'm so relieved! Never actually experienced it so not sure what to expect.

    Top dressing with that tomorrow!!
    My seeds have sprouts almost as long as the hull right now then going to blend up and mix into ewc. What amounts of MBG would you suggest to mix in?

    Thanks for the help a lot haha i feel so dumb sometimes but that's what being a noobie is all about
     
  10. No question is stupid. don't feel stupid. you're trying to learn.


    application for soil is different for everyone. i'm not sure if there is an agreed about application rate. i just sprinkle it all over the surface of the soil. it's usually about a 1/4 cup ground up which equals a ounce weighed which you will find in the recipes, then this is added to water. i would just try to use a 1/4 cup per cubic foot of soil and just call it a day. you could even use half of that. just sprinkle on top the EWC. no need to create extra work mixing it in unless you're bored. when you water, the microbes will break it down either way. just don't put it on too thick. mine started to cause the top soil to crust. less is more in this case. just use your best judgement and don't worry. :)
     
  11. Very well put thank you 🏻 cant wait to finally see the great effect of MBG that everyone always raves about!

    Btw, here are some more pictures of that white substance (probably sodium bicarbonate) just to make sure that's what it is..

    ImageUploadedByGrasscity Forum1443935302.254579.jpg ImageUploadedByGrasscity Forum1443935332.115156.jpg
     
  12. #10872 twotokeengine, Oct 4, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 4, 2015
    don't be put off foliar! Very useful applying growth compounds, to spur vigour and helps fruit set.
    Gets them drinking again. Aim for trace elements and PGRs in sprays not npk. Also needs to be water and plant soluble.
    Ewc slurry, insect frass, cold press liquids, and diy teas( fresh)?all good examples. All has to be fresh and h20 ro or aerated or spring
    Spraying needs to be managed carefully! Light on the mixes 1/8 teaspoon/ L for all till your sure. There are ambient conditions for spraying and the same for not spraying. Early dry(ing) windy sunny warm bright organic. Have a stake in each of these words you'll do fine. Solo sprayers ftw
    Edit a couple of days of foliar with a high pgr high trace ele but low npk, would bush up those girls and they could workout a little harder in that nice rich soil. Pull the weeds no erosion is going to happen enough to do damage


    When you spray lights up lights off fans off all power out. Spray the undersides mostly tops are ok too. Once you sprayed turn up the fans and turn on light. Once dry drop the lights grow shrubs


    Good compost IMO lets you spray more as it's generally more diverse it can cycle the nutes and buffer them like your root feeds don't effect your spray feeds :)
     
  13. Yeah i'm getting more and more into foliar sprays. And would you care to explain a little further what kind of foliar sprays you are talking about when you say trace elements and PGRs not npk?


    And you say i should pull my weeds (cover crop), curious as why you say that?


    I have a cheap $30 filter that i got from walmart on my sink right now. Is that good enough until i get an RO system? Also I've read on here before about people running into problems using RO water on their no-tills, can't remember exactly why maybe if someone wants to chime in!
     
  14. these guys know there stuff on here.trust organic.one member way back on this thread stated ph doesnt matter with organic.he is right.ive got 20 years experience but just now on my third organic grow.on my first one i checked ph and was running 8.7.the plants grew great.thats with hard well water.but plants prefer distilled if possible.im now experimenting with drip.
    Thankyou to grasscity,bluejay,and the no till guy,forget your name,anyways,these guys know their stuff.trust them.
    Also if your soil is really good,sometimes plants will mutate a little.
    Best wishes to grasscity.
     
  15. "Yeah i'm getting more and more into foliar sprays. And would you care
    to explain a little further what kind of foliar sprays you are talking
    about when you say trace elements and PGRs not npk? "



    kelp- its slow release K, alfalfa(lots of N lots of trace ele.), EWC extract, incest frass, AACTs, EMs-
    imo pgr spurrs growth- good compost NPK already present and trace element to large extent foliar just covers any deficiencies to maximise PGR application.


    And you say i should pull my weeds (cover crop), curious as why you say that



    well i didnt study picture too hard just read. i just seen 1 weed. Covercrop is like a confused green manure imo- thers a place for them, green mulches imo are better or topdress. seen lots of cover crop fert builder seed harbour mould outdoors in pots but and thats just what they were doing- covering the soil between crops! But it is your garden- you must do these things and observe and learn!


    I
    have a cheap $30 filter that i got from walmart on my sink right now.
    Is that good enough until i get an RO system? Also I've read on here
    before about people running into problems using RO water on their
    no-tills, can't remember exactly why maybe if someone wants to chime in!"



    I just aerate water- supposidly bubbles the chloriene away. RO maybe removed the minerals and led to deficiencies? good compost in no till topdress sorts out everything. foliar is just a medium of travel.



     
  16. Yes having cold roots can cause a number of problems as both the nutrient cycling vis a vis smaller arthropods slows down and then the biochemical/enzymatic activities all decline quickly under 60-65 deg F. When i have had cold grows, nights dipping into the low 40's and no way to keep the plants warm i saw several deficiencies pop up.

    Yes LITFA. :D If you keep adding epsom salts you're gonna have a bad time. You could always try a foliar with Mg and
    see how the leaves respond, but i would think it was likely cold wet feet that caused the issues.


     
  17. @
    Sorry i forgot to mention that i do not think that pulling any of the other plants would be beneficial in this case. If left in they will help regulate soil moisture for you and provide a much better microclimate at the interface between soil and air. If they start to die back due to lack of light, then i say chop and drop them in place and add some other green or brown mulch over the top maybe some ewc.

    That filter ought to work just fine for now. If you can a copy of the water analysis for your municipal water supply. They have to provide them for free. RO water can be a problem in certain conditions as it can rob the soil of nutrients as it has a very low soluble ion content. You can always bubble or stir your water for 24 hours to help boil off certain volatile compounds along with Cl.

     
  18. You could always just add a small amount of compost or vermicompost to negate the chloramine in the water (majority of water treatment plants switched to chloramine from chlorine in the early - mid 00's; it will not gas off via aeration or evaporation like chlorine).


    Something like 1/4 cup per 5 gallon bucket IIRC....might be as low as 2 TBS per 5 gallon bucket. It's been a minute since I've looked into that part and it's not something I've had to deal with in the past.


    But anywhoo, while there isn't much research into chloramines long term effects on soil the general consensus seems to be it's not dangerous to the majority of microfauna in a high humus soil. I had a post around here somewhere discussing the effects from one of the few publications I found regarding toxicity to water ecosystems and fauna.


    ~I found my old post and the file, here ya go


    There doesn't seem to be much academic research into chloramine's effects upon soil life or plant health but I did happen to find a couple tidbits.

    3.1.2.1 Soil organisms

    No information is available that was directly relevant to the effects of inorganic chloramines in soils. However, the available evidence indicates that negative impacts on soil microorganisms from inorganic chloramines are unlikely. First, a proportion of the inorganic chloramine would be lost prior to entering the soil environment (e.g., from volatilization, photolysis, reaction with particulates) and hence would not come into contact with soil microbes. Upon infiltrating soils, the treated water would be exposed to a variety of organic materials that are extremely reactive with inorganic chloramines. These organic substances serve as effective reducing agents that change the form of inorganic chloramines and bind them to the soil matrix. Although there are limited data regarding these transformation products and their toxicity, their disinfection potential is usually considered limited. According to Zellmer et al. (1987), hypochlorous acid applied in the form of calcium hypochlorite will be immobilized and deactivated by a mineral soil (i.e., fine-silty clay loam).
    The disinfection molecule in aqueous solution must come into contact with the microorganism in order for inactivation to occur. The presence of particulates can provide protection to microorganisms against disinfectants. The protection afforded bacteria associated with surface solids would most likely result from physical interference with the transport of the chloramine molecules towards the organism, because of a barrier of charges associated with the particulate (Gerba and Stagg, 1979). Microorganisms embedded in particulate matter may be afforded significant protection from a disinfectant (Berman et al., 1988).
    In addition, it should be noted that there have been no historic accounts of environmental impacts resulting from inorganic chloramine release to soils or to any phase other than water.
    Since populations of soil microorganisms and soil processes are not likely to be harmed from the application of inorganic chloramines to soils, the assessment of chloramine ri sk in soils did not proceed to Tier 2.

    2.3.1.4 Soils

    There are no studies evaluating the fate of inorganic chloramines on/in soils. Based on related information on fate associated with sediments and surface waters, inorganic chloramines would experience chemical reaction with particulates, volatilization and photolysis at the soil surface and chemical reaction and adsorption within the soil matrix. Inorganic chloramine may oxidize surface layer soil organic matter (Bodek et al., 1988), particularly materials composed of organic nitrogen compounds, such as alkyl sulfides, amines and some nitrogen heterocyclic aromatics (e.g., see Christman et al., 1983; Scully and White, 1992).


    http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ewh-semt/pubs/contaminants/...


    Another couple of resources


    http://www.ext.colostate.edu/ptlk/1548.html
    View attachment Soil and Applied Chlorine - UW Madison.pdf


     
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  19. Thank you for that helpful information GiMiK. The studies and papers you cited do indicate that chloramines, in and of themselves, do not present a high toxicity pressure to soil microbes. That should be of some utility to many readers. [​IMG] Funny thing is that it indicates that chloramines are poor disinfectants under normal concentrations. ha ha

    Even though chloramines are not of much concern i like your advice on eliminating them nonetheless. Reason being that they represent only one of many compounds found in municipal water supplies. It is the accumulation of this and all the other known and unknown/untested for compounds in total that begins to be more meaningful in terms of impact on the soil. I feel eliminating as many toxins, biocides, pharmaceuticals, and other chemicals as possible; is a simple way to give the soil a better outlook long term. Where i am at chloramine, fluoride, and several other less than desired toxins are added to our water.
    Compound chemical interactions anyone? [​IMG]

    sorry. Rambling. These chemicals aren't a big deal, but if you can easily remove them, then i recommend doing so. Thanks again for the discussions.


     
  20. And the Lady said,,,,
    "No question is stupid"
    VERY much agree'd!!!! In 1973, I TRIED to groww "Michoacan" in nortern Illinois, lol... My poor babies got frostburn in the middle of October!!!! LOL< I laugh now,,, but it hurt like hell then! Fast forward, 42 years,,, STILL LEARNING! I honestly consider myself VERY lucky to have the folks in this thread as friends...... You just landed in a wonderful communty... Best to ya!!! [​IMG]
     
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