No-Till Gardening: Revisited

Discussion in 'Growing Organic Marijuana' started by MountainOrganics, Mar 25, 2016.

  1. I've been doing the same after reading about it on here. I'm also thinking of adding some to the next batch of soil in addition to some other tweaks, I need some more N for my outside plants.
     
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  2. Great to hear from ya my friend! Its been hotter than hell! It hit 90 here in the rain forest, and didn't rain at all for 6 weeks (6 days without rain is a drought in these parts). He have had a trace of rain in the last week, but there are forest fires burning everywhere. Its been so smokey it was getting hard to even do anything. There was so much smoke n the air, that sun looked 'orange' all day, just like it would down in the lower 48 at sunset. The entire city of Anchorage ran completely out of ice for weeks, and you couldn't buy a fan anywhere. People were waiting in lines to get an opportunity to buy fans and ac units when the shipments arrived. Crazy shit!
    On the good side of things, my greenhouse and outdoor plants are growing like I have never seen before. I don't think I have ever experienced a June where it was full sun (minus smokey haze) every day.
    cheers
    os
     
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  3. Thought this was kind of cool. Not sure I have seen a seedling with this much variegation.

    seedling.jpg

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  4. Crab meal has 18% Ca and 1.5% P too and is an ingredient in Coot's "fix-it-mix" .Over the years, I've created my own version of fix-it-mix which has a few more ingredients including FBM, Karanja cake and Mahua cake. This mix also augments my worm feeding program.

    I'm attaching a pdf from my library that gives a breakdown on virtually all of the fertilizer blends we organic gardeners use that gives percentages of nutrients, amino acids, vitamins and minerals. It's a little hard to read unless you have a desktop with a huge monitor but can be read in portions on a laptop.
     

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  5. Hey No till Crew! Re-reading this tremendous forum of knowledge and I was wondering, what is everyone getting for their yield per plant?
    I'm getting a consistent 4-5 ounces in 7 gallon fabric pots.
     
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  6. What the hell is mahua cake?
     
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  7. Lol, it's another oil seed cake from a tropical tree in India called Mahua longifolia. One of the perks of being friends with Coot is he was getting bags of all kinds of different fertilizer cakes from people wanting him to pimp their products.

    He gave me half a bag of a blend from Monsoon Farms that had neem, karanja and mahua and IIRC, even some castor cake in it so I've been using it in my worm bin and my fix-it-mix plus. I've gotten different clays, a couple of 300g pouches of TM-7, different powdered and liquid kelp products and two 5 liter jugs of neem oil and karanja oil that come ready to mix.

    The stuff has a surfactant already in it and is being promoted to the organic farming industry for ease of application. Over the years, he's been really generous.
     
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  8. #15888 Paracelsus, Jul 21, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
    Hey OS. Does lobster compost and oyster shell take up the slack on the P and Ca?

    For soil testing who has the best standardized tests fairly priced. I attended a workshop with Greenthumb where they soil tested my community garden soil for contaminents, metals, and toxins but did it electronically through the baggie. I wasn’t impressed and the 6 bags ranged from low numbers like 14 to 440.
     
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  9. Good morning all: For the past couple of days I've been studying Mulder's Chart (see attached) and comparing it against the various no-till soil recipes. I'm assuming others have done the same, but I've only seen brief mention of Mulder's Chart in this thread.

    Has anyone used Mulder's Chart to formulate or modify their no-till mix to achieve a "better balanced soil"?
     

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  10. They both have P and Ca, but I have always thought the original mix was just a little low.
    I have to admit, in my mixes, I add a ton of calcium based amendments and the plants just love it. I don't have much of anything in my water however. I think a lot of folks would have problems using my exact mix in the longterm. For example I use lime and gypsum, both calcium rich. If I knew as much then as I know now, I would have never gone that route, but after using it a long time, it has proven to be a real winner for me. Literally the definition of 'dumb luck'.
    I don't know much about soil testing per se, I hear good things about Logan Labs.
    cheers
    os
     
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  11. Generally speaking, how much of a concern are calcium (Ca) levels in a no-till mix? The reason I ask is because some of the soil amendments have healthy levels of Ca, and it also my understanding that the worm castings are high in Ca. Per Mulder's Chart, too much Ca can be an antagonist for other vital nutrients. I want to make sure I have enough Ca, but I don't want to go overboard (potentially creating other issues).

    EDIT: OS may have already answered my question, as I did not see his latest post before asking my question.
     
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  12. OS: If you've had good success with higher Ca levels, why do you think some might have problems in the longterm? If it's been a winner for you why not for others? Thanks!
     
  13. Over the last year or so, a lot of the regular blades have taken to testing their soil and more importantly their water. One of the issues that folks with lots of carbonates in their water are finding, is they need to back off lime use or use a water source with less minerals, like RO. Some others are adding sulfur and not using lime for the same reason.
    hth
    cheers
    os
     
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  14. + BuildASoil Complete Soil Building Kit - Coot Approved I couldn't find pumice stone anywhere locally, I will have to use perlite, for now, is that going to be a big issue? I bought a big tarp and plan to mix it all on that I should just moist the soil down periodically as I mix it? I have some cover crop seeds on the way and some barley straw mulch. What else should I purchase and have ready for this grow cycle? I am using 8 10 gal. smart pots (plan on upsizing to 15 or 20 in near future) and plan on using a 600H Rspec V2 + 1000W HPS Combo. Should I purchase some worms and add a few to each pot? Thanks for all the help, been learning so many new things and completely changed the way I view growing.
     
  15. Yes, I've seen those discussions and have taken note of the remedies folks have implemented. So are you among those using RO water, less lime and/or a sulfur treatment to balance the Ca levels in your soil? If not, what do you think is contributing to your success with higher Ca?
     
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  16. I was all hung up on using pumice like the Coot mix in the beginning too, but it’s not important and hard to find most places. Perilite works just fine, never had any issues with it and I use extra in my soil mix. 7.5gals each of CSPM and EWC and 8.5gals of perilite for my base.

    I mix on a tarp and it really helps with dust if everything is moist. I also wear a mask. Especially wet the perilite. I poke holes in the bottom and run the hose through it. If worms are in your mix then no need to add more.

    You should buy Comfrey and other dynamic accumulators plants to grow and feed through your worm farm to end up in the garden. Monthly top dresses of Neem/Kelp help out a lot too.




    “Nature does not hurry, yet everything is accomplished” - Lao Tzu
    Prepper420’s No-Tillin Adventure!
     
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  17. Awesome! I didn't even think about the dust that will occur, will definitely use a mask. I will try that trick with the perlite too sound useful. I have no worms at the moment so I will purchase some a toss a few in each pot. I also need to order my own worm farm but I haven't fully decided which one I am going to use yet. (rough winters here in MI) I will pick up some comfrey for sure. I have neem oil laying around I just put a layer of the liquid on the top of the soil? or is there actual neem seeds or something? final question , I have access to RO water or a well (pretty hard water) would RO water be the better choice for no til? using the well would be much easier but I want quality not ease. Thanks again!
     
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  18. You want Neem cake for top dressing, Oil is ONLY for spraying on leaves. Make sure to emulsify it first too.

    I’m not sure about RO water, maybe someone else can chime in on that. I use filtered tap water. You may be able to filter the well water to balance it out and use that.
     
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  19. Thought this was interesting...

    Why and How Insects and Mites Feed on Your Plants and Flowers
    April 7, 2005
    Insects and mites that feed on plants have different feeding behaviors, which include chewing, piercing-sucking, mining, boring, or galling. The majority of insect and mite pests that attack ornamental plants growing outdoors have piercing-sucking or chewing mouthparts. Insects with piercing-sucking mouthparts include aphids, whiteflies, mealybugs, soft scales, and thrips. These insects insert their mouthparts into the vascular tissues of plants, primarily in the food-conducting tissues (phloem), and withdraw plant fluids. This results in plant wilting, stunting, and leaf distortion. A number of insects, including certain leafhoppers and spittlebugs feed within the water-conducting tissues (xylem). Insects with chewing mouthparts include beetles, caterpillars, grasshoppers, weevils, and earwigs (although not considered insects, snails and slugs have chewing mouthparts). Chewing insects physically remove portions of leaves or flowers directly, or consume entire plant parts.

    The reproductive portions of plants are attractive to most plant-feeding insects because these portions are more nutritious due to the relatively high levels of protein. However, these portions may contain high levels of secondary metabolites (defensive compounds), which may influence acceptability. Plant leaves usually provide the greatest biomass for insects and are the best food nutritionally--next to reproductive portions. Nitrogen is the primary plant nutrient needed by insects with piercing-sucking and chewing mouthparts. Nitrogen (in the form of protein and amino acids) is very important for insect growth, development, and reproduction. Nitrogen levels are usually higher in younger tissue than in older leaves, and levels decline as plants mature. Nitrogen level is a factor that can limit insect growth and development. In general, plants tend to lack nitrogen in the form that insects can utilize. The dry weight of most insects is between 8 and 14 percent nitrogen; however, plants overall contain only 2 to 4 percent nitrogen. The phloem contains only 0.5 percent or less, and the xylem contains 0.1% or less nitrogen. Reproductive portions (flowers and seeds) and leaves contain from 1 to 5 percent or more nitrogen. Nitrogen is an important component of protein; however, protein concentrations can vary depending on plant type, age, and nutritional status of the soil. Protein is generally higher in reproductive portions, and leaves and stems.

    Plants that are overfertilized, especially with nitrogen-based fertilizers, produce succulent growth, increasing susceptibility to plant-feeding insects and mites. The higher levels of amino acids, which are the primary food source used by insects and mites, can increase their reproductive ability. In addition, plants that receive excessive levels of fertilizer may have thinner leaf cuticles, which are easier for insects and mites to penetrate with their mouthparts. Variegated plants, those with white, yellow, or red coloration along with green portions are typically fed upon more by insects because the variegated areas contain more nutrients and fewer defensive compounds than the green portions. Additionally, variegated portions are softer and easier for insects to penetrate with their piercing-sucking mouthparts or to consume.

    Insects with piercing-sucking mouthparts that feed in the phloem may produce large quantities of honeydew, a clear, sticky liquid. Free amino acids, essential in the production of protein, are very important to phloem-feeding insects. These insects require protein (in the form of amino acids) for development and reproduction. To obtain the necessary quantities of amino acids, insects must consume large amounts of plant sap, which contains an assortment of other materials in larger quantities than amino acids. The excess is excreted as honeydew. Also, phloem-feeding insects possess carbohydrases such as amylase and a pectin-hydrolyzing enzyme that break down the middle lamellae of plant cell walls. Insects that feed within the phloem (such as aphids, mealybugs, whiteflies, soft scales, and certain plant bugs) tend to exhibit a high degree of host specificity because certain plant-specific chemical compounds tend to serve as important host selection cues. This is why, for example, that aphids may prefer certain cultivars of chrysanthemum to others.Insects that feed in the xylem, such as true bugs (Order: Hemiptera), must cope with negative tension and very low concentrations of nutrients in the xylem fluid. As a result, these insects feed faster as the water potential becomes more negative, and they extract extremely large quantities of plant fluids, which is one reason why xylem-feeders tend to be larger than phloem-feeders (I bet you didn't know that!!). Insects with piercing-sucking mouthparts that feed within the food-conducting tissues are susceptible to systemic insecticides applied to the leaves, stem, or soil. Systemic insecticides are generally very water soluble, which allows them to be distributed into roots and leaves. Also, plants do not readily metabolize systemic insecticides. In general, the active ingredient is taken up and moved throughout the plant (translocated) in the xylem, the phloem, or both. Additionally, once inside the plant, the active ingredient may move back-and-forth from the water-conducting tissues to the food-conducting tissues or vice versa. As an insect feeds, it takes up a lethal dose of the insecticide and is killed. Systemic insecticides include acephate (Orthene/Precise) and imidacloprid (Merit).

    Insects with piercing-sucking mouthparts that feed primarily on the underside of leaves, such as whiteflies, are susceptible to insecticides with translaminar properties or local systemic activity. These materials penetrate leaf tissues and form a reservoir of active ingredient within the leaf. This provides residual activity against plant-feeding insects. Examples of insecticides with translaminar properties include abamectin (Avid), acephate (Orthene), and spinosad (Conserve).

    Leafminer larvae feed between the leaf surfaces in the mesophyll layer of cells. Generally, this protects the larvae from applications of contact insecticides; however, products with translaminar properties are effective, as they are capable of entering the leaf. Spider mites, including twospotted spider mite, Tetranychus urticae, do not feed in the vascular tissues. Twospotted spider mites primarily feed on leaf undersides within plant cells and obtain food by removing chlorophyll (green pigment) with their styletlike mouthparts. Because spider mites don't feed in the vascular tissues, they are not susceptible to systemic insecticides; however, spider mites are susceptible to insecticides/miticides with translaminar properties, such as abamectin (Avid) and etoxazole (TetraSan).Chewing insects, in general, are nonselective in their feeding behaviors they typically ingest macerated whole-leaf tissue. However, some are more selective. Chewing insects are typically not controlled with systemic insecticides. Insecticides with contact and stomach-poison activity are more effective in controlling insects with chewing mouthparts.

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  20. Great post Patanjali!! Love stuff like this!
     
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