new grow with FF soil/nutes/ferts

Discussion in 'Advanced Growing Techniques' started by jakrustle, May 25, 2010.

  1. i have read so much on soil and mixing your own soil and all that. now my head is spinning. I have been doing my homework, but I really want to keep this next grow simple.

    Here's my plan for soil. FFOF, which so many have you have suggested. Seems to be one of the number one picks for keeping things simple and relativley low on the additives/nutrient scale. I was going to get some Marine Cuisine from FF, add that for the vegging cycle.

    Then, just before going to flower, I want to flush the pots. Then I will begin fertilizing with the Tiger Bloom til near harvest time.

    Anybody got an idea if I am missing something such as any additives or going with other ferts/additives/nutirents. I am getting some NL X C99 seeds from Hemp Depot soon and I am preparing for the set up.

    Any responses would be appreciated.

  2. I would suggest adding some perlite to the FFOF to help with drainage...I always found it to help when I used to use it.

  3. short answer- i think you'll be fine

    i use FFOF and i love it. i did however add a touch of miracle grow but only because i ran out of FF soil and needed more soil to fill the pots. but it's like 95% FFOF so should hardly be a difference from pure FFOF.
    i also use FF big bloom, tiger bloom, and grow big. i use a little less than directed because i dont want to burn them. i ordered the kit from htg supply and they also included this overdrive stuff. you use it with your normal nutes during the last half of the flowering cycle. havent used it yet but plan to in like a month when their half done.
  4. I would advise against FFOF. Most people who use their system experience some kind of calcium and magnesium issue, occasionally a manganese toxicity. Recently the quality of their soil has really declined and I personally will not use the product again.

    My suggestion to you is to keep it simple but to do it right!

    Coco is the direction you want to go. All you need are five ingredients.

    Get yourself some reverse osmosis water, some botanicare cal-mag plus, some canna coco A and B, and use all of them in equal volumes. 10ml/gallon of each is fine.

    Seriously, coco is a very underused medium around here, it seems this community hasn't quite caught on, but I assure you that coco is easier than trying to understand a complex organic soil environment.

    Mix the solution, water once a day, and watch it grow. 3 gallon planters and you can reuse the coco from one grow to the next.
  5. I agree. Everybody thinks FFOF is the best soil to use, but it really isnt. I use Botanicare Ready Gro Moisture control mix. It rocks!
  6. Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I have been a little intrigued with some of the soiless mixtures, but worried about my lack of knowledge so far with the nutes, etc. Frankly, I think my last grow was as much a pH issue as a overfert issue.

    I am going to research some of the soiless mixes some more. I guess if I went with one of them it is just a matter of getting a low maintenance fert/nute program.

    Thanks, again.

  7. SnowCrush, I like your idea and I will certainly look into the availbility of those ingredients around here. Is the Canna Coco A/B a nute? I read some stuff about the Botanicare in High Times this month and in one article they had some good things to say about their products. Granular, isn't it?

    Oh, could that RO water be bought at the store? Is it usually pH correct? I am only going to have 1-2 plants in my small tent, so I was wondering if I bought gallons of the RO water and mixed it that it would stay in good order if I didn't use it right away? Always wondered if the fert viability changed over time once mixed.

    Thanks, again.
  8. if your just looking for a simple method of growing...check out hempy buckets. Really easy and pretty low maintenance. Its a passive hydro sysytem basically or there is also quite a few soil mixes in the organics section as well.

  9. #9 Snow Crash, May 26, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 26, 2010
    Hempy buckets, as well as DWC buckets, are kinda pricey in the long run compared to other systems. RO filtered water can be found at, or near the grocery store for around 25 or 30 cents a gallon. Look for a water machine usually placed out front of the store; they use very good filtering systems and are cleaned often. If you don't live in Jumanji you can probably get filtered water delivered to your home for $1.25 to $1.50 per gallon. Google "water delivery" and enter your zip code. You never know... I just set up a plan, its like $30 a month and I get one of those hot/cold water dispensers so my plants and I can both drink clean water :) Totally worth it, I've spent $30 in a lot worse places for more useless shit than pure water for my body and soil (pun intended).

    Coco comes in a lot of grades, consistencies, and qualities. I like to use Botanicares CocoGro compressed cubes as they reduce shipping costs and they are very well washed. The consistency is mostly pithy (like wet coffee grounds) and somewhat coir (short fibers 2" to 4" long). It breathes well, holds a lot of moisture without drowning, and doesn't require preflushing.

    Coco pH buffers itself, usually starting around 6.5 to 6.7 and gradually falling to 5.8 or so near the end of the growth cycle. This self-buffering capability helps reduce problems without the need for religious pH testing. Coco nutrients come in two parts because coco needs a fair amount of phosphorus to fulfill its Cation Exchange Capacity; the electrical balance that enhances nutrient availability and uptake. If the phosphorus and the Magnesium were kept in the same bottle they would create salts because of the strength of the solutions. Reactive components are kept separate until they can be mixed at much lower concentrations.

    Canna Nutrients is a company that offers several different lines. They also have an organic line known as BioCanna. Each has their own respective websites, though the BioCanna site is still a little "fresh." They are out of the UK and they spend a tremendous amount of money on research and development. What Advanced Nutrients spends on advertising Canna puts it into the science.

    I have used some of the Botanicare line, namely Cal-Mag Plus and Liquid Karma. Both are high quality products. The Cal-Mag Plus is great in RO water as it also supplements Iron which is an often overlooked element that will lead to yellow growth if deficient. Liquid Karma was instrumental in the growth of some Kandy Kush I did that turned out sweet smelling and trippy.

    I've had the chance to do maybe 2 years of solid research into nutrients and there are a few quality lines. For the budget minded, Botanicare, Dutch Master, and Canna are ideal. Advanced Nutrients does grow some seriously good stuff, but it is extremely expensive to get the entire line, so for a beginner I'd stick with the tried and good. There are two ways to feed your plants. One is through mineral and chemical nutrients derived from salts and in a solution being absorbed directly by the roots. The other is by a root zone bioculture breaking down organic material into the mineral and chemical components which are then absorbed by the roots. I see a lot of people using inorganic nutrients in soil, damaging the bioculture, and causing salt related issues. I'm a victim of this mentality as well and I gave the whole Fox Farms thing a run for its money but in the end there are just better ways.

    I think, as of this moment, that the best way to grow is in pure coco coir with organic and coco specific systems. I am using Botanicare's organic line Organicare to supplement my reverse osmosis water. It's a four part micro nutrient system, Calplex for calcium (crucial in coco), Huvega for Magnesium and another 150+ minerals, Humega for organic humic acids, and Seaplex for ocean derived amino acids and growth enhancers. This combination of components is absolutely ideal for any system in my personal opinion.

    I couldn't just use a micronutrient system though, not in a coco mix, so I'm also using Canna Nutrients Coco system and supplementals. This is a specifically created system and is pre-pH balanced. Coco A and Coco B are both needed in equal amounts, ranging from 10 to 15 ml of each per gallon at the peak of growth depending on plant needs. To complete the system I use:
    Rhizotonic, a root system enhancer, during the early vegetative stage to establish a healthy system to support my plants throughout their lives.
    CannaZym, a root system enzyme designed to break down dead roots, providing nutrients, enhancing disease resistance, and creating spaces for young roots to grow.
    PK 13/14, a phosphorus and potassium bloom enhancer used during the 3rd week of flowering to supplement natural flowering needs and produce bigger buds faster.
    CannaBoost, some magic snake oil stuff that makes buds bigger, stickier, better smelling, and all of that quicker. Crazy... I know, but it's good stuff for the connoisseur.

    250ml bottles of Boost and Rhizotonic can be found online and if requested at the store for reasonable amounts as you don't need very much of them if you're just doing a few plants. In total I think the Organicare line ran me like $60 total, I got 1L of everything except a 250ml Seaplex . The Canna line ran me $110 or so, and that's enough nutrients for 12 plants start to finish. So $170 plus another maybe $50 in coco, it winds up being like $20 per plant or so to get each set up with planters and nutrients and what not.

    Compare that to $40 or more PER BUCKET just to get setup in hempy or DWC. Any system that depends on moving parts has a fundamental weakness, they will break eventually, so you need spares. It just gets out of hand expensive for the regular grower. A reservoir and a water pump with some tubing on a timer is perfect for a long summer vacation, but I steer clear of systems that depend on them.

    Here are some links that should help you get started in your quest.
    Indoor Plant Care, Hydroponics, Grow Lights, Natural Pest Control and more... Low shipping costs, reasonable nutrient prices, good variety.
    Grow Lights, Grow Bulbs and Hydroponics - Plantlighting Hydroponics & Grow Lights Lowest priced hydroponic HID lighting online I've come across. Large catalog, reasonable prices, high cost shipping
    Cannabis Seeds Attitude Marijuana Seeds Attitude seed bank with tons of dealers.
    Gypsy Nirvana's Seed Boutique Nirvana's seed retailer with some unique dealers and some overlap with Attitude.
  10. Snowcrash, thanks so much for the info. Was very nice of you to get all that info on here for me and all the others.

    I am going to really have to look into doing a grow with your recommendations. I ended up doing a mix of FF OF and FF Light Warrior. I have Advanced Nutrients Mother EARTH TEA GROW AND BLOOM for ferts. My plants are one week in the new media now and I am hoping for the best. I am really fert shy, but worried more now about fresh air getting to my tent which is in a closet.

    Thanks again for everyones info.

  11. For sure homie. Here's a few pictures of what I got going on currently to wet your lips. 4 weeks old, Lemon Skunk, Blue Mystic, Sharks Breath, and a 3 week old Cole Train. I used a different setting for both pictures to give a realistic idea of the colors.

    Attached Files:

  12. Crash, man, I am envious. I just looked at mine and already I am seeing a burnt leaf tip or tip. I am in the FFOF and FFLW, 50/50, and today was the first day I gave it half the recommended fert with the Advanced Nutes Mother Earth Tea Grow. You think I am getting this touch of yellow in the bottom leaves and the burnt leaf tip due to no nutes until today? These plants were in cups on the 22nd of May, I transplanted them 3 days ago.

    What do oyu think about them not getting any fresh air. I am in the desert, it was 104 today and the only fresh air these guys are getting is return conditioned air. Maybe I just need to be patient.

    Your plants are really looking incredible, though. Great stuff.


Share This Page