Need example of how the 'free market' has failed.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Kylesa, May 28, 2010.

  1. How about an example of a successful free market?

    ETA: Actually, why don't you define "success" and "failure" first. Because when you are talking about culture and society, we probably have two entirely different definitions.
     
  2. Somalia.

    Somalia has no Government intervention into it's market - neither on the side of business, nor in the form of "coercive regulation".

    It has a Government so small you could literally drown it in a bathtub. It's president is basically a prisoner in his walled palace - cannot go outside for fear of assassination. He has no influence at all on what goes on in his country.

    And look at how prosperous it's people and businesses are.


    But I'm sure someone will chime in and tell me why that doesn't count as a "freemarket".
     
  3. Not sure if this counts, but honestly, Enron and their little issue of trading energy when it was unregulated is pretty close to free market, at least in that regard. There's a good documentary on Netflix about it. Enron: Smartest Guys in the Room or something like that. Apparently what happened is they started trading electricity in California, drove prices up, refused to sell power to make it more valuable, then sold it later for massive profits (The real reason behind those California black outs...). That's really apart from the whole accounting tactics of Enron but you can see how a deregulated market completely fucked Californians and how that can happen in any industry. Humans are corrupt at heart and it will never change. True free market can't happen without people who have morals, and there's always some that don't.
     
  4. Further demonstrating that freedom and islam are incompatible.
     
  5. Oh it just occurred to me that I'm curious if you are asking for examples of a free market that have failed or free market failings.

    If the later: Externalities.
     
  6. This is a awesome question because the free market can't fail only companies within the free market can fail. Nice job finding a question these liberals can't snake their way out of. :hello:
     
  7. Damn. I bet my GF that it would have something to do with UN meddling. She said it would be the muslims. I owe her $5.

    Never miss a chance to minimize an argument and blame the muslims first eh?

    Nicely done sir!
     
  8. The UN meddling has prevented the natural market forces from correcting the problem by providing massive amounts of subsudies to the warlords. Lacking subsudies from the UN, the biological solution would have long ago fixed somalia.
     
  9. Bah, didn't find time this weekend, and it's unlikely I will tomorrow. My grandpa is being honored in a parade tomorrow, and there will be concessions and all that afterwards, so it's unlikely I can type up the thread tomorrow either.
     
  10. Externalities arn't a problem if you have well defined and enforced property rights.
     
  11. Companies gaining a monopoly and muscling out small business competition, Walmart being a great example.
     
  12. Concerning Walmart pt.1
    Concerning Walmart pt.2

    Subsidies, tax exemptions, minimum wage laws, ≠ Free market.

    All are forms of state interventionism, picking winners and losers, favoritism, etc.

    Free market - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


     

  13. truth
    /thread
     
  14. #34 Mirvs, Dec 11, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2011
    I think the best example of market failure are externalities.

    The subject is extremely important and entirely overlooked.

    I know you're pry familiar with them kylesa but for others: In short, an externality is any cost that makes it past the production cost. E.g. a plant that makes paper but pumps its affluent wastes in to a nearby river avoids the cost of reclaiming that waste. Therefore, manufacturers overproduce that product and someone else picks up the tab for their waste. It lowers costs until that damage is discovered.

    Personally I feel externalities are just opportunities for entrepreneurs to find a way to make money improving work/living conditions but statists seems adequately content to make law prohibiting that positive behavior.


    Edit* To those who are saying a free market has never existed: You know you're on the Internet, right?
     

  15. ...and we all know if it is on the internet it could never be wrong, manipulated, altered, a flat out misrepresentation of the full story...naaaa, that never would happen...
     
  16. good luck finding one.

    good luck defending your inaccurate examples against the hounds that make up the Libertari– i mean politics section.

    free market can't fail, free market is the natural way of things. The conditions of africa were created by corrupt governments taking money and helping companies rape the continent. The people don't have power, so how can that be free market? Its an oligarchical-corpocratic market. Free market separates the govt and corps. Free market only needs the people to save themselves.

    ^apply this to economic interference
     

  17. Agreed.

    A totally free market is nothing but a bunch of people interacting with each other voluntarily without force, violence, or theft. It can be broken down that simply.
     

  18. ^excellence. what a great post.


    if i may also add, one thing that free market cant work well with is fraud, because it distorts perceptions of the underlying fundamentals, of whatever it is that is in question. in a free market, govt. may put those who commit fraud in jail. but thats as far as it goes with govt. intervention. i doubt that happens in somalia, and other places in africa.
     

  19. I disagree. When has a private court/police system been tried and seen to fail? A free market system may very well be able to handle law enforcement if it were given a chance to. Imo if the free markets work better than the government in every other area, why should it not also extend to that?
     

  20. i have thought about this issue countless times. i have not been able to make up my mind. im not sure if we can extend free market ideology outside of economics. like i said, i have wrestled with this idea, for quite a while. I just dont see a free market economy working well, if there is misrepresentation. i know that eventually the fraudsters would go out of business, which is the incentive to be truthful, but we have to deal with the fact that they made money up until then. i know you can put the blame on the counterparty who failed to do research, but there are so many factors that are overlooked.
     

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