Mycorrhizae

Discussion in 'Growing Organic Marijuana' started by The Bunker, Nov 24, 2011.

  1. i hope someone can answer this one question that i cannot seem to find. what type of microscope do you need to see all the microbes and whatnot that is found in a compost tea?
     
  2. This website tells you and has DVDs and videos available as well as microscopes for sale.

    Microbe Organics
     
  3. If you want to get a little bit more technical, Symbiosis refers to a relationship between two species. Parasitic, Mutualistic, and communalistic. Mycorrhizal Fungi falls into the Mutualistic category. As much as I would like to give links to the research I have read in the past, I can't because they cost money and you need to pay to read them. I had access to them at one time when I was in College but I do not have that anymore.
    I didn't and don't mean to offend anyone, which seems to have been the case, I was just writing some of the knowledge I have down for others that may be interested, since I have been obsessed with Mycorrhizal fungi along with various other strains as well. I have done many reports, and studies involving Carbon footprints and farming techniques, that studied the carbon sequestration ability of soils along with other drawbacks that can occur with the disregard of the role that Fungi plays.
    As far as VAM or AM, Does it really matter to you that much. I have always known it as VAM and the picture of Mycorrhizal fungi infecting a root sample in the microscope pops into my head. A 2009 addition Text box still refers to it as VAM so its not a big deal what you choose to call it. I can see changing it and making sure it is right before summiting a Lab report but this is a forum and people know what I am talking about, but thanks anyways for pointing it out.
    Your also right, I forgot about the other pages of this thread and thought for a minute it was only one page long. But yeah I realized it after I posted and got the chance to read the thread from others. A lot of hard work and thinking went into a good many of the post, which is something I personally love to see.
    Now depending on where you live, will determine you mycorrizal spores you will have in the surrounding area, I may have been speaking in rather broad terms. So you may not have a certain strain lurking in your soil that Cannabis may get along with. The point that I was trying to make is that when winter leaves an area and summer comes about, Mycorrhizal fungi starts to grow with all the new sprouts of Perennials and Annuals which it has been doing for millions of years. It's going to do it no matter what you do, I can see logic in what people are trying to say and what claims certain companies enjoy making, but I wouldn't put much effort into controlling nature. Nature has done a pretty good job up to know, what makes anyone think they can do better.

    BTW the clover Idea is brilliant, although the clover itself from what I recall doesn't fix nitrogen; rather it has root nodules that house the bacteria the produces nitrogen for it. By using clover you will help raise nitrogen levels and bacterial levels in the soil. Just leave the dead clover on, or mix it with the soil, because the clover will use what nitrogen it can get out of the bacteria. You will get some of it back through composting leaf matter into the soil and some of it may even leave the soil in the form of Nitric Oxide. One of the many drawbacks of conventional farming and the addition of Nitrates to soil is that tilling soils help reduce nitrogen and increase Nitric oxides in the atmosphere. Cars do the same to some degree and when Nitric oxide reacts to sunlight you can end up with O3 or troposphere Ozone. Which can lead to free radical damage etc… beyond the scope of this thread; I really disagree with the use of Ozone generators, but some people swear by them and don't consider the dangers.
    Clover housing bacteria will help in raising bacterial count so that also will work well for you.

    In closing, I really like to see people with an interest in Mycorrhizal fungi, I hope more people get into studying such a fascinating Mutualistic relationship that fungi has with plants.
    One thing I wish more people would understand is that if a strain of Mycorrhizal fungi has a relationship with cannabis, then it will form it most likely from the seedling stage on, both species would have coevolved in some manner to maximize benefits. Or get weeded out of the gene pool. That is my personal Hypothesis, that I would like to see disproven or supported in a journal somewhere but that's what science is. A Hypothesis, Test, then conclusions are draw from the results of testing that are then made from one scientist opinion of what those results all mean.

    If someone has the time and energy, plus the money I would love to peer review any material someone would like to submit in the form of a Scientific Journal Format, Not ranting and raving and blowing up this thread with little snippets of things they found on Wikipedia. But solid, factual peer reviews material with in text quotations that point to the biography at the end of the report. It is possible and done very often in many journals where scientist and students get all their data from other lab reports etc… and compile everything to make a sound solid conclusion to the goings on…
    That would be fun, but as I HATE to write and I am happy to say I got my degree I hope I will never have to write another one again, I won't be summiting any reports myself. But I will be happy to read them 
    Once again, I am not trying to hurt, insult or downplay what anyone has to say or post. The one thing I have learned over time is that anything is possible even when you believe otherwise and Science is all a matter of professional opinion, and not considered a matter of Fact.
    Good luck to everyone and Happy growing.
     
  4. slimjiffy420 You need a Compound Microscope along with a slide and slide cover.
     
  5. #65 Microbeman, Jan 1, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 1, 2012
    On the clover (legumes), the bacteria at the nodules will 'leach' nitrogen to the soil with the clover as a living entity. We used legumes combined with grasses like Timothy, Fescue and Reed Canary on farm for this very reason. [this is the reason legumes are excluded from certain university soil studies concerning nitrogen] Another benefit which Weedroid has raised is that clover is associated/infected by Glomus Intraradices, so if you expose the seeds/roots to Intraradices spores there is a great likelihood one will achieve infection/colonization which is likekly to remain viable/active when it comes in contact with cannabis/hemp roots. (not to say one should not treat cannabis/hemp seeds and roots with Intraradices) A member over at ICmag has been doing anecdotal trials in what he calls 'living mulch' for some time.

    It is not just a hypothesis but a working theory that endomycorrhizal fungi spores will associate with cannabis/hemp from the seedling stage up. There are many hemp farmers who plant more than 1000 acres annually who have been practicing this for some time. They soak or treat their seeds in Intraradices (3200 to 2 million spores per gram) There are some studies showing that it can take up to 6 weeks for the full benefits of infection to be measurable which has led some to conclude that endomycorrhizal fungi is not that useful in the normally fast paced growth 'pattern' of indoor grown cannabis. This is by all means not even close to being 100% factual.

    I believe there are now three threads going on the subject and I forget which one outlines why it makes sense to use Intraradices on its own for cannabis/hemp or just go with Trichoderma (not AM).

    HEY DADDYO; Do ya think combining the threads somehow is a good idea?

    If one is growing hemp/cannabis outdoors (excluding commercial horticulture previously described) in the ground, then there are many numbers of fungal species which could associate with the root system. It is my present working (and researching) hypothesis that 'dark septate endophytes' which have been illustrated in some (non-wikipedia) peer reviewed studies to be mycorrhizal may comprise some of the fungi imperfecti grown out in ACT.

    Some people have actually caused ecological problems by transplanting various species of fungi around: out of forests; into forests. I'll try to locate the paper. If you are going to try introducing or growing out wild fungi, my opinion is that it is better harvested from a grassland area rather than forest.


    Was the paper I posted too Wikipedial for you? Perhaps you should examine your own snippets before pointing fingers.
     
  6. #66 WeeDroid, Jan 1, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 2, 2012
    Quite frankly I found your post insulting (particularly your opening statement) to this forum and just a bit arrogant.

    That's nice, but again, lurk more and see what we already have going on in here. I also find it interesting you want to share knowledge, yet act insulted when someone points out your inaccurate use of nomenclature. Sharing knowledge is a two way street and some humility on your part would go a long way.


    Yes it does. Proper nomenclature is important. You stating you think it isn't important just makes it hard to take you seriously. Especially after this somewhat rude statement.

    There is no lack in real understanding of Mycorrhizae here. But apparently you are not up to speed on these matters. As I suggested, lurk more and as MM mentioned, know what you are talking about before you start teaching.

    Thanks, got it covered.


    You really are a rude boy, ain't ya. :rolleyes: An especially amusing statement coming from someone who thinks scientific names should be used as casually as possible.

    I didn't blow up the thread, I was sharing more accurate information than apparently you are capable of. At least I'm using sources that can be checked. Apparently you can't even do that.


    Then what is all this blathering you are doing?

    Lurk more.
     
  7. #67 Possuum, Jan 1, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 2, 2012


    As anyone who has read the organic section threads lately knows, including this one, its pretty brutal here as it is in the soil. "Vicious" does become a frequent adjective. In the anomynous virtual stoner-world of "worldly knowledge" (cut-n-paste) it truly is an eat-or-be-eaten environment. Whatever happened to the predominately collegiate discussion that used to occur in the organics section? The time when all people were invited and encouraged to join in with discussion and their opinions or their questions rather than them being intimidated to silence by a few? Is what's happening in the secular space of the real world now drifting into The City's virtual world?

    IdK, seems like 2012 is starting out like 2011 ended. Where's the love and respect for one another. You're anomynous for crying out loud! Just be nice :). It takes more effort to be nice but it will build a better person in your character. It's called "empathy". Try to find some.

    Metaphysical? Phttttttt! Reality!

    Peace.
     
  8. #68 WeeDroid, Jan 1, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 1, 2012
    That's nice.

    Maybe you would be so kind as to point out the lack of;

    instead of making broad sweeping and vague statements? From what I can tell, we are having a discussion in here and your petty rant is disruptive.
     
  9. I apologize if I have contributed to this viciousness. I try to post only things I believe to be backed up by scientific information or what I have observed myself in the lab and it bothers me when I see incomplete or inaccurate information posted. I usually only counter the information without attacking the individual. One thing that many do not know, is that if you refer to someone as ignorant, this is not an insult, rather a description of lack of knowledge. It is not that I have used that phrase here but I might. I am particularly put off by those who start teaching others incorrect information, as if it were fact. They could at least say, this is what I think or read.
     
  10. Actually WeeDroid every single bit of collegiate discussion occurred in the Organics Sections before YOU became a member here in The City. Ever since you joined you've offered absolutely ZERO in the way of originality or personalization let alone any original research or citations. You sir are what I refer to as a lap DawG. Just a noisy ankle biter.

    So, that is no sweeping accusation. It's a pointed answer to your question. Let me repeat it: before YOU became a member of The City. That is when it was a nice place to be. Pointed enough?
     
  11. sure, say hi to my ignore list. :)
     
  12. #72 Possuum, Jan 2, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 2, 2012


    Yessir. I agree 99%. The only thing I'd suggest thinking about "ignorant" is that when a person is not learned they are in fact ingorant. Thus it might be assumed they would not understand what that word meant, or it is very, very likely they would take it as an insult. In a real world situation calling someone ignorant might lead to spitting of teeth of the orator.

    You're an intelligent person. You know I offer this reply purely as objective and pragmatic opinion. It is one possible outcome that a person would take the word "ignorant" in a negative way. There are probably better words.

    That is ... unless a person gets really, really PO'ed and then it's gloves off. I've got no axe to grind with you microbeman.
     


  13. Thank you. 27.375 +reps when I can give it to you ... again ... and for the last time. G'day.
     
  14. Possuum.

    Finally someone who said what I've been thinking. I like the lap DawG.

    That's is all.

    HaGGarD
     
  15. The self appointed forum police who is eager to intellectually spar and bully other posters into silence. I prefer question and answer type conversation in threads. Abusive back and forth is the only reason I drop a thread I'm interested in.
     
  16. Ahem.

    Someone comes on spouting a lot of nonsense and I challenged him on that and some very specific points in particular.

    Where is the issue?

    It's typical in discussions for points to be challenged. Some of mine get challenged and I don't mind. It's how I learn anyway.

    For some reason, a very few folks here think I shouldn't be allowed to challenge someones nonsense, yet think it's okay to get belligerent with me.

    Sorry but I don't agree. Now, as far as I am concerned, this bitching about my communication styles is FAR more disruptive than any discussions I get in with folks. If people are genuinely concerned about thread content, send me a pm so we can have a nice chat about things off topic.

    As such I will no longer address any pissing and moaning about my posts in public, and specifically won't address any points raised here, except in pm.
     
  17. #77 SkunkPatronus, Jan 2, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 2, 2012
    What nonsense? That was someone's veiwpoint, they were adding to the conversation. You're arguing about a dead mans hat.

    The issue is that no matter who tells you that you lack empathy, you don't see that you should attempt to gain some.

    Debated, not challenged. This isn't a dual, it's a discussion. You pick up a pitchfork everytime someone has a differing opinion, it's not right.

    Has anyone ever said that they think you should be allowed to CHALLENGE someone 's "nonsense"...ever? No one, Not one. Ever.

    No body is being belligerent with you. I am being honest with you. You are often belligerent.


    I am being not bitching. It isn't a communication style. People pointing out the obvious isn't far more disruptive that any "discussions" that you get into with folks. You don't discuss anything, you argue, and it is far more disruptive than people's pointing out the obvious.


    You will address much "pissing and moaning" in public, because it's this 'public' that people keep having to read your arguments. It's this 'public' that you will keep reading people's comments about your "discussions", because so far, any comments made have fallen on deaf ears. As you continue to inflame people, and they will continue to point this out.
     
  18. Thanks for mentioning it, but as stated I won't go into this in a public thread anymore.
     
  19. Where did you get this, this sulfur disagreement, I'd like to know more. I have a shit-ton of sul-po-mag in my soil, I think it's like 22% sulfur...or close. I am still learning about DE and it's breakdown into a an aluminum ion that's systemically available, and I have some DE floating around int here too...new learning is good.




    I'd like to know more about this too. I have read the carb-bacterial vs the fungal strands and wondered if it does or does not throw them out of wack.



    Well it won't if it's crappy soil, most people have crappy soil, then adding some would help...think it thru...


    I did that, I have been told repeatedly that endo vs ecto or what-ever-the-fuck, and yet I got a lot of my microbes from under my Sequioa and my Western White Pine and from under all of my fruit trees...and my plants do well in my soil. I think that you can have plant and tree myco in the soil and that they must both be just fine 'in there'.
     

  20. You won't, but they will. Unless you stop molestering all the visitors.
     

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