whad'up fellow tokers!?! id like to see what yall think of my TLO soil mix's. the idea for these soils is to support a for the most part "water-only" type of grow, with maybe, if needed, the occasional worm/kelp tea and/or a fpe(fermented plant extract) of dandelion, comfrey, stinging nettle, yarrow). the goal is to produce the most "top shelf cannaisseur" quality medicine possible, with health and vigor being the first priority, followed secondly by yield. the first soil im going to list is the one i just made and will soon use, the second soil is what i would like to do in the near future. all of these soils are going to be recycled and reused, but im trying to "perfect" my recipe, haha. thanks to everyone in advance for stopping in to share their thoughts! ...ok, so here we go... round 1... the base mix is made up of equal parts of a soil-less medium, drainage component, and a blend of composts. the soil-less medium being 4 parts peat, and 1 part vermiculite. the drainage being 4 parts perlite, and one part pine fines(which broke down a lot quicker than expected, lesson learned) and the compost being 2 parts worms castings, 1 part mushroom compost, 1 part black cow, and 1 part regular compost. the base mix was then amended with the following blend of nutrients at a rate of 2.75 cups per sq ft: 2x kelp meal 1x crab meal 1x neem meal 1x alfalfa meal 1x epsom salt 1x greensand 1x Espoma Gardentone then 4 cups of local granite dust, .75 cup of a calcitic/dolomite lime blend, and .5 cup of crushed oyster shell grit. also a couple extra handfuls of pine fines, just cuz the soil was then allowed to compost down for 4-8 weeks before using, and done! now, for round 2!!... the base mix will be: 40% equal parts of local worm, local mushroom, and homemade composts 20% coco coir 20% perlite 10% rice hulls 10% biochar then amending @ 2 cups per sq ft with the same nutrient blend as mentioned above except with adding 1x each of flax, canola, rape, cottonseed meals(all or as many as i can find!) plus 1 cup of diatomaceous earth, 1 cup of crushed oyster shell grit. for minerals using 3 cups of Naomi's mineral mix(azomite, glacial rock dust, jersey greensand, calphos rock phosphate and limestone), 1 cup of basalt rock dust and 1 cup of an allumnosilicate clay like pyroclay or pyrosol. then allowing the mix to "cook down" for 4-8 weeks, while watering with AACT's and fpe's until ready to use, then going "water-only" thru-out the entire grow if all goes well!!! Thanks again to everybody that shares their thoughts!!! -peace- 5starF
wow.. ok sorta confused a lil.. I see some issues with the first batch, or at least things that i'd change. I'm not sure what pine fines are.. if its small amounts of pinewood then that's not a good idea. When they breakdown it'll screw with not only the soil temp but the nutrient content as well. If I follow you correctly, you are adding a WHOLE lot of nutrients in that soil. I have one question you said it was mixed with does that mean you premixed all those ingredients up and then added a TOTAL of 2.75 cups per cubic foot? OR does that mean that you added 2.75 cups of each amendment (god I hope not) Either way, I would have done it a lil differently. The second batch i'd avoid the coco coir, and ALL of the seed meals except for neem. Good that you are using biochar, but if you re-use the soil i'd go with volcanic rock/pumice/biochar as your aeration. Ditch all those "seed meals" and go with alfalfa, neem, fish bone, crab, and kelp meals. Many of those seed meals will acidify your soil fast, especially cottonseed Also the second list you are adding too much aluminum, you are already adding azomite so i'd avoid adding any more, especially if you re-use the soil.. REMEMBER, i'm not saying you are doing this the wrong way, just that i'd do it differently, and you asked for opinions and input... I love that you like biochar and FPEs, i'd not water the soil with FPEs while it's cooking though.. you are adding a lot more nutrients to it. The AACT? Sure. Oh, and personally I really like the 33/33/33 ratio of compost/vermicompost/peat/aeration. Yours is a little heavy on the compost and while compost is an absolutely wonderful kickass thing, it can absorb too much water, and cannabis hates wet feet... Sorry, I don't mean to pick apart your recipe brother..
I think it really depends on the specific compost as far as how much to use. I grow in pure compost. J
None whatsoever. It's super heavy on the lead mold component; is ridiculously light and fluffy and drains perfect - almost too much. Let's say 70%% leaf mold, 30% horse manure/stall bedding. To this I add all the usual household kitchen scraps, plus lots of lobster shells and ridiculous amounts of comfrey. I've added kelp/alfalfa/neem/Rock flour in the past but right now I'm using a batch that has no added typical amendments and is performing well. I do sometimes throw a handful of chicken manure pellets into the transplant pot just cuz but yeah, the leaf mold is a wonderful thing and the comfrey seems to really take care of nutrition well. No peat, no aeration and no real store-bought dry fertilizers... J
This is the level I'm trying to work towards; got my horses, leaf piles, and comfrey plots. Jerry Jr. here I come!
Obviously there's the initial work but it's a labor of love... And once it's done it's as organic and sustainable as it gets. Little to no money spent, it works works works. Gardening like gardening was meant to be IMO. The heaps are always loaded with big fat worms too. Glad to hear you're going this route Steve! J
You know that's really a cool way to grow.. you are the first I have heard of that does this. I have all the ingredients to do it as well... a big ole compost pile that is mostly leaves/ocean bull kelp/hash trim/rotten redwood chunks, and alfalfa meal... and a couple comfrey plants
exactly, pine fines are like penny sized and smaller pine bark wood chips.. tho ive never heard of them harming a soil in such a way. i mainly use them to add organic matter and to feed the microbes, but they also aid in aeration for a while usually. ive grown many different kinds of plants with pine fines in the mix and havent really had any issues yet.
i blended all of my amendment together and used 2.75 cups of that blend. and ive heard mixed reviews about coco coir, but ive never really used it so figured id try it out. and i was wanting to add the seed meals strictly for nutrient diversity, which learned from LD is a good thing. same with the mineral mix. im not sure where the too much aluminum is coming from. i also agree that compost CAN become too heavy, but properly made with a good leaf mold like Jerry said can be a lighter soil than you would think. but just in case thats why 40% of the second soil mix was aeration, 20% perlite, 10% rice hulls, and 10% biochar.. and i realized after the fact i messed up on explaining one thing, i wanted to soak the biochar in a FPE prior to adding it to the soil, then water the mix with an AACT while its "cooking" down, so the nutrient soaked biochar can continue to feed the ever growing microbial army over longer periods of time, hopefully getting us all the way thru harvest with a water only grow without lacking anything along the way! ....sorry, ive been lurking and learning for years now, but im new to actually posting anything so im still trying to figure out how to post properly.. but im glad you guys are here to give advice and bounce ideas! - Jerry, ive followed you on here for a while actually, i appreciate you stoppin in on the topic, dude!! -5starF-
1. First and foremost, make sure you're using good quality compost/Vermicompost in your mix. I've no doubt you've heard this a million times already. 2. Get some food sources for the soil into the mix. I've learned that while some are better than others (comfrey/kelp/neem are probably better than a plain bag of Epsoma, for example) but no matter what get some food into the soil mix. You've got that covered IMO. 3. Make sure the mix drains well/is properly aerated. Heavy/dense soil sucks. 3 basic rules when you're building a soil, and IMO if anyone follows them they'll be pretty darn successful. There's so many different soil mixes out there but you've done some homework and no doubt will fine tune your soil over time to suit your own needs, that can be made inexpensively as possible with local goods. I say go for it and see how it performs for you. You can mulch with this and that, make this or that type of tea and I'm sure it's gonna work out fine in the end. Good luck man. J
Awesome, thanks Jerry!! Yeah, if I can find some of the seed meals I'd probably drop the espoma from the mix. I 'll use that on other plants around the house. The local mushroom compost here already has chicken manure, straw, cottonseed hulls, gypsum and and couple other things in it, so it should be pretty nutritious on a broad scale and ready to go!
if I understand it correctly wood when it composts will take a lot of energy (nutrients) from your soil, not to mention increasing the soil temps, but it depends on how much you use, I LOVE wood chips in my soil, but mine are all rotten redwood chunks that are waaaay past composted. But ya know what man? doesn't matter what I;ve read or heard or any of that shit, if you are using it, and it works well, then keep doing it! this was copied and pasted from a waste management site. Wood Chip Carbon and Nitrogen The micro-organisms that decompose wood chips require nitrogen in amounts greater than are available in the wood chips alone. If additional nitrogen is not mixed with the wood chips, the micro-organisms will get the nitrogen they need from the soil, competing with plant roots for the nitrogen available in the soil. This is why bark mulch works to keep weeds down. Wood Chips in Compost Piles: Most of the material you place in your backyard compost pile is high in nitrogen. Food waste and lawn/garden waste are the two most common ingredients of backyard compost piles, and both are high in nitrogen. Wood chips can be added to a compost pile to provide a better carbon:nitrogen ratio. Wood chips, with their rigid structure, also enhance the flow of air through the compost since they are less prone to compact. This is a good thing. Wood Chips as a Soil Amendment: You can use wood chips to add organic material to soil. The process will take four or more years. You will need to add nitrogen along with the wood chips to facilitate decomposition of the wood chips without depleting the available nitrogen in the soil. For each 10 X 10 area: Year One: add one pound of ammonium sulfate for each one inch layer of wood chips. Year Two: add one half pound of ammonium sulfate for each one inch layer of wood chips. Year Three: add one quarter pound of ammonium sulfate for each one inch layer of wood chips. Year Four: add one eighth pound of ammonium sulfate for each one inch layer of wood chips. In other words, start with one pound ammonium sulfate for each 100 square feet the first year, and decrease that amount by half in each of the following years, until the wood chips are fully decomposed. Wood Chips and Soil pH: Wood chips will lower soil pH, making it more acid. That is a good thing for acid loving plants like evergreen trees and shrubs, but might be bad for other plant species. In areas where soil is already neutral or acid, the addition of wood chips can result in excessively acid soil. annnd yeah I see that they recommend to add ammonium sulfate..... I wouldn'd do that of course, alfalfa or comfrey would be a good substitute. but like I said, if it works for you, keep doing it.
hey if it works, then do it. I was merely repeating what I had read, I've never used wood in my mix, unless you count rotten treelogs. Which are awesome... little chunks of rotten wood.. Mini hugelkultur thingy, holds a perfect amount of water by the way
Right on guys! I appreciate all the input. Grease, knowledge is key so it's all good! I've never used rotten redwood chunks, or even seen them purchase that I can remember. Where do you get them? I'm guessing they're indigenous to your area?.. I'm in North Florida, we have pine EVERYWHERE. After letting my first mix "cook" down for 8 weeks, you couldn't even find a single piece of pine fines in the mix, it had completely broken down! Btw, did I mention I threw a couple handfuls of worms in the mix to keep things moving while it sat, hahaha!!... Dingo, glad to see you've had success with pine fines as well. 30+ years with no issues definitely speaks for itself!! I'm guessing yer in the south somewhere also??...
Camp out next to a mangrove swamp before you give it a shot. Or, unless you have a really large yard and love lots of critters. Wet
Yeah, i'm in a redwood forest, so there are logs everywhere. The more rotteny the better, you want to be ale to crumble them with your hand, and when they are wet it's like a stiff version of a sponge, GREAT for highly aerated soils (like the type cannabis likes) I imagine it has a good CEC as well. You could probably find rotten pine tree logs too, I bet that'd work great, but it also sounds like what you are doing is right on, so ya may wanna leave it alone. either way, I really like the rotten wood addition to my soil, that and the biochar.
Word. I might do small batch on the side and try that!.. do you make your own biochar or buy it somewhere? I've been wanting to build myself a burner, just haven't gotten off my ass to do so yet, lol...