My paradox

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by Postal Blowfish, Oct 4, 2010.

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  1. #1 Postal Blowfish, Oct 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 4, 2010
    I am at the core a materialist, as if that is my instinct. So I believe that the physical things I sense are reality, and that all life perishes eventually. I believe the end is there, in that final moment. What if there was a way in which that final moment could extend onward for as long as I wished it to? What if my final thought would seem to extend on until all I could imagine was understood, and I reluctantly turned off the lights?

    I have had dreams that seemed to last for days, so I am aware that my mind can create time for mental experience. I know that it is dreaming that allows it, but I also know that it is my mind that facilitates it. Many who have been near death report reaching a state of mind where they experienced extraordinary dream-like situations. A materialist has to label these as delusions, but they suggest that there is a final state of mind in life.

    A materialistic approach to explaining the afterlife might go as follows: I live my life and dream my dreams, and before my body will die my stubborn mind troubles me with one last dream. Could we truly be content in the life we've led at that point? Possibly. Without a doubt? Probably not. Perhaps in that last moment, our mind divides time for as long as is necessary to find the answers to all its questions. Certainly long enough for us to finally face death.

    This then raises the possibility that this final moment has come already. I may be living in the first thirty-five years of my final thought, and will only have the idea that I am imaginary when my death comes and I continue to exist.

    It appears that I am committed to both positions. That seems impossible. There is a practical side of me arguing from reason, and another side of me that in the very least refuses to reject idealism. I have an imagination, and I know others do too. How can I accept what others seem to imagine? I can't. I try to, but there is no sensible way to communicate it that I have ever known. Ultimately, it is within myself to understand the universe. If I am ignorant, I will learn. I don't need to look to any entity for an answer. Every question I ask a person is asking for an inspiration for the discovery of an answer.
  2. I don't have the time to make any criticisms about the rest of the post but I felt it was necessary to mention that while you're dreaming, your brain is still functioning. When you're dead, your brain stops functioning. I think the time dilation created by your brain during dreams would no longer exist after that big 'ole organ stops functioning.

    Kinda like the people who say you DMT trip your life away, what happens to a guy that gets shot in his Pineal gland?
  3. As to your issue of time dilation, our perspective on time is based on the number of things we remember. After people have "Near Death Experiences", they have emotionally arousing events, which tend to be well‑remembered after a single experience. Personally, I believe that NDE are only Flash Bulb Memories, and from an evolutionary standpoint, it makes sense.
  4. I do not presume that everyone experiences it, as certainly those who die suddenly and unexpectedly such as being shot in the brain must be forced to die before the brain can react. I also don't presume that you have an unlimited time if your brain can and actually does create a final dream. You could conceivably have as long as you wanted, or you could have a very long time before the physical ends cuts it short, but not forever.

    I think if I were to find myself released from my body and able to contemplate everything I knew in the last moment before the thought I found myself within, I might be bored of the task in less than 200 years. If my mind can compress that much time into the space of about a minute, it could effectively serve as a coda to my life. It would seem to me as the afterlife before it tired me and I decided to let go of it.
  5. If you want to accept what others are imagining, you have to give up on, being conscious of how you look toward other people, and you have to focus on believing that what is said is true, and anything that says otherwise may be false. I mean hell, I believe in all religions, but what is true for me, might not be true for everyone else, unless I or they change their mind. And I stick to my guns, but I put them down when I am proven wrong. I am willing to except new things, at the same time, keeping the good old things. My personal philosophy is, everything is conceivable, everything can be possible.
  6. You appear to be saying I must accept what you say and everyone else is wrong. To that, I would ask you this: who are you? Are you someone other than a part of me?
  7. #7 ScribesNature, Oct 5, 2010
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    And the paradox continues. What he means is you can't help but compare and objectify people without taking them as they are and if you continue down this route you will lead a long and lonely life. The universe doesn't revolve around you kid and if you can somehow realize this you'll finally be able to realize how utterly foolish you've been

    [ame=""]YouTube - Bob Marley - Wisdom[/ame]
  8. lol :smoke::smoke:
    • Like Like x 1
  9. (Referring to your sig) Chicken. The chicken came first.
  10. Okay, you got your condescending post out of the way for the evening. Thanks once again for providing us with practically nothing, and I hope you enjoy the rest of your evening.

  11. Your life is built around condenscending and judging others and you have the gall to post that? I will enjoy the rest of my evening peace :smoke:
  12. I vote you two the cutest couple in GC. :D

  13. Awww fuck you :smoke:

  14. [​IMG]
  15. #15 mrgoodsmoke, Oct 5, 2010
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    The only problem I see is that if in your dream you were conscious, then even if your body was dead, there's still be at least some kind of awareness of self, and in that respect you either wouldn't be dead, or you wouldn't be constructed of matter.

    Very interesting topic man. It's actually making me think a bit.

    If you're interested, I have a paper called, "veridical hallucination and prosthetic vision" which is written by a staunch, and brilliant materialist,(not me) in modern language which you might enjoy.

    It has to do with how we understand situations where what it is that I am seeing as a result of my hallucination coincidentally is identical to what's actually there, but I'm not seeing what's actually there I'm only seeing an identical, (indiscernible at least), image of it via hallucination.

    Pretty good shit.
    I consider myself a philosophical kind of materialist. My version is a little strange in that it allows for non-physical entities so long as they obey certain mathematical and logical rules.
  16. #16 ScribesNature, Oct 5, 2010
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    You calling me gay guy cuz your mother's tonsils hold indisputable proof of my heterosexuality as well as other things but hey its a fee country believe what you want :smoke:
  17. I have an innate materialism but I am realizing that I can't let go of idealism. In any case, I'm sure I would find it interesting.

    I'm coming upon a problem I think you were describing, in that I have imagined myself to have a final dream where I live my life over again unable to let go of my life. When I finally discover what it is I need to let go, I start to wonder if there isn't another final moment.

    Then my problem sounds like Inception. I feel as if I am moving away from the innate materialism. It becomes confusing, it starts to look like everything and nothing are possible, and that nothing in the universe can be trusted to be what it seems. I almost feel as if I am in the state of mind that spiritual people profess, but I don't sense any of the answers they profess. So, I guess they would say that I am not, but just trying too hard.
  18. Could you please contribute something philosophical to my thread and refrain from having self-centered discussions as well.

    Thank you. I apologize for whatever I did that offended you.
  19. #19 mrgoodsmoke, Oct 5, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 5, 2010
    Well, an ontology that only includes matter is great for physical science, but it's certainly not a complete model of everything w/ a capital E.

    I'd study lost of logic. Most people have some rudimentary understanding or propositional logic or predicate logic but that only helps win debates and understand what people are saying.

    There is a much more complex system of philosophical logic than most might think.

    When you used the term "possible" I thought of this...

    When people talk about perspectivism, or problems that arise regarding what people know and how in relation to where and when they are, the epistemic problems of perspectivism, I think of this....

    And when people talk about what they're supposed to do as a matter of civic duty, or to be properly alligned w/ their own ideals I think of this....

    That shit is real science. Not some toy science concerned w/ engineering tasks, or technological innovations, but the science of expanding science itself.

    It really just goes on. There are no unanswerable questions in the universe. There are however many unsatisfactory answers. I think that if we examine long and hard enough, that we come to the answers that satisfy us. That's all we can really do.

    Last edit!!! Speaking of ontologies, I've been thinking alot about tropes lately. I think I'm down w/ the trope theorists. Check this crazy shit out man!!

  20. There's your philosophical discussion goodnight. You could never offend me lol no one can I fight tooth and nail with everyone and some people just can't handle that so they come up with conclusions based on their misunderstanding. Life right? :smoke: Deuces
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