My idea for pleasure that I want scientifically tested

Discussion in 'Pandora's Box' started by Mantikore, Nov 4, 2014.

  1.  
    This is where you go wrong right off the bat. You start by saying you can create neutral sounds.. and then lead into saying that because of that, everything we create is neutral. That would be like saying a person can scream at the top of their lungs, therefore every single person is always screaming at the top of their lungs.. sounds silly right? Just because it's a possibility doesn't mean it's a fact. You're going to have to work on your #2 if you want to make a serious stab at this... science.. cause I don't know about you, but I can create emotional, non-neutral meanings within my brain. One thing they do often in science is back up their claim and #2 needs that..

     
  2.  
    If you read my entire post, I said that only the emotions themselves that arise out of our created meanings in life are good and bad in of themselves and that everything else in life besides pain, despair, and pleasure are all neutral.  The version of "good" that we create in terms of our knowledge and thoughts is neutral. But the version of "good" that comes from our experience of pleasure alone in of itself is not neutral and can never be neutral or bad and is always good no matter what.  If you are going to say something such as that, although pleasure feels good, but can be bad if it is used in harming others and other bad deeds, then what you are doing here is combining other things in life (such as the harming of others) and placing that upon your pleasure and saying that the experience of pleasure in of itself is something bad in this situation. The fact is, pleasure and other things in life stand alone by themselves as separate things since they are completely different things. They do not somehow combine with your pleasure and make your pleasure good or bad when pleasure is always just simply good in of itself no matter what.  The neurons that become active in our brains and elicit a state of pleasure are different and separate from the neurons that are responsible for other things in our brains such as thoughts, knowledge, movement, breathing, etc. This also goes for other things in life. All other things in life consist of chemicals, atoms, etc. that are separate from our neurons that give us pleasure. So these things cannot somehow infuse themselves with your pleasure and make your pleasure something bad or neutral.
     
  3. There was no point in continuing past #2. If you really want to take a scientific stab at this, you need to support your claim with something other than personal philosophy.
     
  4. If a tree falls in the forest and there is nobody around to hear it, does it make a noise? :confused:
     
     
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  5.  This is so ripe for an Xzibit meme... lol


     I lol'd when the summary ended up being enormous.
     
  6. This is the epitome of TLDR. Can you sum it up in fewer words than in all 4 Lord of Rings books combined?
     
  7. #7 MattMVS7, Nov 4, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2014
     
    Here is something that supports it:
     
    Yes, all meanings are different in that they are different words and such.  But they are all the same in the sense that they are all neutral (neither good or bad).  Any perceived logical fallacies in my argument here might hold true for other things in life, but not for what I'm saying here.  You might say something such as that "You can create an 'ooooh' vowel sound when you sing.  Therefore all words you sing have 'oooooh' vowel sounds" in order to try and disprove my argument here.  But the fact is that all things in life besides pleasure, pain, and despair are nothing but chemical processes, atoms, molecules, etc. that are neutral (neither good or bad).  But it is only pleasure, pain, and despair in of themselves that are the only good and bad things despite the fact that these things are the functioning of atoms, molecules, etc. in our brains.
     
  8. So they're neural, yet they're not at all?

    I'm just becoming more and more confused at this philosophical assertion, even more so than how you expect science to test any of the philosophical principles you've brought up
     
  9.  
    I will bring up what I said again to reiterate my point:
     
    "Pleasure is a good experience in of itself and we don't need any thoughts or knowledge to tell us that it is good (this might hold as an example for cats and dogs).  The version of "good" that we create in terms of our knowledge and thoughts is neutral. But the version of "good" that comes from our experience of pleasure alone in of itself is not neutral and can never be neutral or bad and is always good no matter what."
     
  10. I still have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say nor do I understand what you want tested.
     
  11. No, it doesn't. I mean support it with something legit, so sort of scientific research.. something other than more of your personal philosophy. Look, I don't really care what you're trying to get across.. all I am commenting on is your argument for it. So many times you see someone say "yadda yadda yadda is a given" and then they build a huge argument based off of that.. when yadda yadda yadda was never a given in the first place. That's far from a scientific approach.. when you go into things while assuming something is a given, you typically set everything back.

    A good example would he Aristotle's birds. He made a claim that birds hibernate in the winter.. and that claim stuck around for thousands of years. People who went into researching birds assumed it was a given that birds hibernate, they even made up claims to support what they assumed was a given. Then you had people making claims of pulling hibernating birds up from the bottom of lakes and shit. Now if people didn't assume birds hibernated right off the bat, it wouldn't have taken thousands of years to learn otherwise.

    All you're doing by assuming a given is limiting your potential.. if it is truly a given, then you will be able to support your claim with scientific facts and references. So far all you've done was say what you personally believe.

    That's if you actually want to scientifically prove what it is you want to prove.
     
  12.  
    In order to test my idea, it would be just as simple as scientifically explaining why something is the way it is and nothing more than that. But you somehow believe that pleasure in of itself is not objectively good and don't believe that this is the way pleasure will always be no matter what in of itself.  If you are going to say that everything in life is just a bunch of chemicals, atoms, molecules, etc. with no good or bad meaning whatsoever, then that would only be true in terms of things besides pleasure, pain, and despair. If you are going to ask how can pleasure, pain, and despair be objectively good or bad when they are nothing but a bunch of atoms, molecules, etc.? The answer to that would be that they just are. It is a scientific fact that the different functioning of atoms and such yields different things and different materials. Therefore, the functioning of the atoms and such in our brains has yielded experiences that are purely good and bad in of themselves (which are pleasure, despair, and pain). To ask how can those things be objectively good or bad would be no different than looking at a piece of metal and asking "How can this piece of metal even objectively be metal in the first place since it is nothing but the functioning of atoms, molecules, etc.?" The answer to that would, again, be that it just is.
     
  13. Good to know that typing can still fall on deaf ears..
     
  14. #15 Infinite Experience, Nov 4, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2014
    Oh my... this thread is full of contradictions.
     
     
    So the good that we create in our terms of knowledge and thoughts is neutral, but the version of good that comes from our experience of pleasure is not neutral and can never be neutral or bad and is always good no matter what, but it's neutral. I want the shit you're smoking
     
  15.  
    I never said the phrase "but it's neutral" and I've explained in terms of science in my entire opening post how it's not.  You have given pleasure a neutral meaning when, in fact, that meaning does not make pleasure neutral at all. Your created meanings do not somehow infuse themselves with your pleasure or other emotions and make them good or bad in of themselves or even neutral. These emotions stand alone by themselves as good or bad. We can all obviously agree here that pleasure always feels good and is always a great experience. So why wouldn't that make it objectively good in of itself (disregarding all other things in life because these other things are either neutral or bad)?
     
  16. #17 Infinite Experience, Nov 4, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2014
    Well you said that the "good" we create in our terms of knowledge and thoughts is neutral, that's part of your experience. I don't know, the way you're wording it makes it kinda hard to understand sorry. I don't disagree with everything in your thread though, don't get me wrong you make some good points, but in a lot of it what kind of "good" are you talking about exactly, just pleasure?
     
  17. Smoking cigarettes is pleasurable.. but bad for you. People who cut themselves get pleasure from the pain, pretty sure that is bad for their health though. So the idea that pleasure can't be bad is silly.. and you have yet to bring any science into this. I can tell you're a stubborn person who ignores things that go against your belief, but you really should just give up on the science part.
     
  18. #19 ExcretingCretin, Nov 4, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2014
    Tldr but your response enables mine due to the notion of this threads illegitamicy.

    Dude where d bitchez at? Aint no pleasure in hurr.

    Srsly dissapointed at the lack of bewbs.

    Sent from my LG-E980 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
     
  19. #20 MattMVS7, Nov 4, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2014
     
     
    Pleasure and our thoughts are separate experiences as they are separate functions of the brain.
     

     
    It doesn't matter whether your pleasure causes you harm or not, the pleasure in of itself is still good no matter what because it stands alone by itself and everything else in life is separate and different and cannot infuse themselves with your pleasure and make it bad or neutral.
     

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