My first organic mix

Discussion in 'Growing Organic Marijuana' started by silentbob9898, Feb 11, 2014.

  1. #1 silentbob9898, Feb 11, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 11, 2014
    Hey guys! First off I want to thank everyone for the wealth of information here. Ive been growing for a few years now off and on using at first dwc buckets but I am currently growing very happily I might add in 60/40 coco/perlite, hand watering with AN 3 part and a few additives. After first being inspired by jerry's gardening without bottled nutes thread I decided to start doing some more research, and as a man who enjoys trying something new and expanding my knowledge about all things cannabis and gardening. I have decided try mixing up a batch of soil.

    I just got back from Concentrates NW. It's an amazing place. Like a mecca of organics.(Another big shout out to jerry for the recommendation by way of his "sourcing organic amendments" thread...man is that dude killin it or what!) Love that bulk section. Kinda happy not to have to buy 50# bags for this trial run. Anyone in the Portland/ Vancouver area should defiantly go here. I even picked up some seed savers Exchange seeds for my veggie garden this year!

    So here's the breakdown of what I have on hand
    1 bale of peat
    1cf compost
    1cf pumice
    Epsoma garden tone
    Kelp meal
    Crab meal
    Alfalfa meal
    Bone meal
    Fish meal
    Azomite
    Lime
    Green sand

    I was thinking about 1cup of each per cu.ft?
    I'm plan to order some neen meal as soon as possible and after I finish this post I'm on my way out the door to NW Red worm to get some castings. I figured its worth the drive to camas to get some good castings. You guys have got me paranoid about bagged castings.

    Wanted to have some of you gents weight in on what I have going here. Thanks!
    Redbeard
     
  2. Oh I also have a mess of coco and perlite on hand if that could jazz up the mix some?

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  3.  
    Awesome, welcome aboard!
     
    I would recommend 1/3 peat, 1/3 humus (compost and EWC mixed any way you please), and 1/3 aeration.  For the aeration, pumice is the ideal, but if you are making more than 3cf of soil and need more aeration, you can use the perlite you have.
     
    As for your amendments.... Per Cubic Foot, I would..... mix the kelp, crab, and neem together and add 1-1.5 cups of that.  I would mix the garden tone, alfalfa, bone, and fish meals, and add 1.5 cups of that.  Then I'd mix the azomite, lime, and greensand up, and add 1 cup of that.
     
    The one thing you're missing is rock dust.  Try to find any kind of rock dust- glacial, basalt, granite, etc.  Add 4-5 cups of that per cubic foot of soil you are mixing
     
  4. Gandalf gave ya some excellent advice. You can figure the coco into your 1/3 peat and the perlite into your 1/3 aeration. Welcome to 'ganics man!!

    my first grow
     
  5. Thanks for the warm welcome. I'm looking forward to seeing how it works out for me.
    Just got back from NW redworm. Got 10 gal of there highest quality for $25. Glad I took thw extra 15 mins outta my day to get the good stuff.

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  6. #6 silentbob9898, Feb 12, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2014
    Alright got a plan hammered out now.
    2pt peat
    1pt ewc
    1pt compost
    1pt pumice

    Per cu. ft.
    .5c of the following
    Crab meal, alfalfa meal,kelp meal,bone meal,fish meal and Epsoma plant tone
    2c Azomite
    1c lime
    1c greensand

    Any thoughts?
     
  7. You may want to up the aeration to 2 parts. If not, then reduce the compost/ewc down to 1/2 parts (Ie. 50% peat, 25% aeration, 12.5% compost, 12.5% ewc). It's much easier to adjust watering in a well-draining, aerated soil than it is to fight a heavy, overly-compacted soil.

    my first grow
     
  8. #8 donothinggardening, Feb 12, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2014
  9. Good info on the Azomite. Is that the link you intended to post?I don't see any info on Azomite

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  10. #10 donothinggardening, Feb 12, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2014
    Oh nope lol... exactly one page back from the end of that thread.

    Here ya go:



    "I actually just posted about this yesterday on the organic board in our Silica thread:

    Here is a statement from Dr. Faust at BioAg on the alumina-silicates in Azomite, and the effect humic/fulvic acids can have on them: "Typically, aluminum constitutes about 10-20% of these clays. The claim made by sellers is that the aluminum is bound in the silicate structure and is therefore not biologically active. This may be true from a chemistry standpoint, when only examining the clay itself, but is not the case when it is reacted with fulvic acid. So the caveat here is that fulvic acid is well documented to dissolve silicates as well as mono, di, and polyvalent cations (positively charged ions). This means that fulvic acid binds and retains these minerals in a bio-available form for cell penetration or uptake. Now the aluminum has a very high biological significance, unfortunately a toxic one."

    here is a website which discusses soil aluminum and toxicity (http://www.spectruma...erpretation.htm).

    Here is an excerpt: Very little Al+++ in the soil solution is required to cause damage to most plants. Few, if any plants grown for commercial purposes in this country will tolerate more than 1.0 ppm of soluble Al+++, and most will have some problems at levels greater than 0.5 ppm. Since Al is the most abundant element in the soil, but the soluble Al+++ is the toxic form, we need to know how much Al+++ is present in the soil and what controls its availability to plants. The availability of Al+++ is not completely understood, but certain soil factors are known to have a significant effect.
    • The total amount of Al present in a particular soil type
    • The soil pH
    • The types and amounts of clay in the soil
    • Soilorganic matter

    The last one, soil organic matter, is important because organic matter produces humic and fulvic acids... which are chelating agents that break apart the alumina-silicate bond. If you start adding more humic/fulvic (which is normally good), you are going to drastically increase the soluble Al+++, which is the toxic form.

    And you may not even recognize it as an Aluminum toxicity problem... Here's another excerpt:
    Excess soluble/available aluminum (Al+++) is toxic to plants and causes multiple other problems. Some of the more important problems include...
    • Direct toxicity, primarily seen as stunted roots
    • Reduces the availability of phosphorus (P), through the formation of Al-P compounds
    • Reduces the availability of sulfur (S), through the formation of Al-S compounds
    • Reduces the availability of other nutrient cations through competitive interaction

    So it may appear to be a Phosphorus deficiency, when it is actually aluminum toxicity interfering with P uptake."


    my first grow
     
  11. With all this info coming to light would you still say Azomite is a good amendment in small amounts or would you recommend going another route?

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  12. You could probably accomplish the same thing with some topsoil/clay from outside and some rock dust. Lots of people use azomite. I don't think it's a necessary amendment at all and the Aluminum makes it not worth it IMO.

    my first grow
     
  13.  
    I'd say, if you already have it, it's fine and safe to use in small increments- I would aim for 1 cup per cubic foot or less, and really, with mineral mixes there's not much reason to use more.  That said, I wouldn't buy any more of it, given that it's not necessary and it adds some level of risk/hazard to growing and consuming that plant.
     
    The main concern comes when people think Azomite can be used as a rock dust, and they add 5 cups per cubic foot.  Then they also start using humic acid, and they're headed for trouble.
     
    If you have it, use it sparingly, if you don't have it, don't get it.
     
  14. Thanks for clearing that up for me Gandalf. I'll still use it but I'm going to go out and find some rock dust.

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  15. Just mixed
    2pt peat
    2pt pumice/perlite
    1 part ewc/compost

    As for amendments I made a mix of
    2pt kelp meal
    1pt crab meal
    1pt fish meal
    1pt bone meal
    1pt alfalfa meal
    Of that mix I added it @ 1c per cu.ft of my peat/compost/pumice mix

    To that 1c/cu.ft of
    Lime
    Greensand
    Azomite

    I had originaly planned to mix the plant tone in with my "meal mix" but got stoned and forgot it. So I ended up adding that alone at .25 c/cu.ft. it been moistened and is sitting in my storage unit on a tarp. I will be getting some rock dust/dusts in the next few days and mixing it in then. I figure I would go ahead and get it cooking.
    Redbeard
     
  16. you should be golden bro. mycos would be good when you get plants growing. You may want to start an ipm system to head off any pests.

    Twas Ever Thus!
     
  17.  
    I think the ingredients and ratios are money.... my one nitpick if it is allowed would add another cup of your amendment mix per cubic foot.  Normally we recommend 2-3 cups per cubic foot of "nutrient amendments".... what LD would have called the Food Mix & the Fix It Mix combined.  When you mix in the rock dusts, I would recommend mixing in another cup.  But that is certainly a nitpick, and I think your soil is going to be killer
     
  18. Thanks guys, I can defiantly add another cup per cu.ft. off amendments I just didn't wanna use to heavy of a hand with them. What ratio would you recommend I add the rock dust at?

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  19.  
    Approximately 4-5 cups per cubic foot of soil.  It's pretty hard to over-do, and not a big deal if you under-do, so don't worry about it too much.  Just giving your fungi a home.
     
  20. I feel like I need to come clean guys...while I do plan to try this side by side with my coco grow, I'm 90% making this mix for my veggies garden this summer. I figure a mix that can deliver start to finish on cannabis is going to rock the tits off my tomatos and peppers this summer! And did I mention how much cheaper it is to mix your own :):D
     

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